Does freedom of speech excuse preaching hate?

this is pretty much my take on it.

Celi perhaps failed to fully grasp the very recent ascent toperfect virtue accomplished by the "new" UK. All the centuries of oppression and colonialism have been washed away. The distemper of the Moslem world, itself in no small part a direct consequence of the deceptions and exploitation of British colonialism and misrule since the 19th century, is now seen as a remote problem belonging only to others.

They have even solved the riddle of discriminating between unpleasant speech which might be seen as inciting violence and that which will surely not. They can tell their sheep when to be silent and when to speak without in any way inhibiting their perception of freedom.

And what about my own rights?
According to our Constitutional court, both rights are equal. However, personal rights are always to be looked at in "light of freedom of speech" [translated original quotation].

I want my rights to be defended as well.

More Clues, Questions About Director Of Anti-Islam Film
September 13, 2012
by Amy Morgan and Scott Neuman - NPR

The past 24 hours have produced a few answers — but many more questions — about the anti-Islam film that became a flashpoint across North Africa this week.

NPR's Carrie Kahn reports on Morning Edition that The Innocence of Muslims was shot in Los Angeles County last August, under the title Desert Warriors. It's full of "choppy dialogue, bad acting and scenes of a buffoonish Muhammad," she says.

The head of the agency that coordinates filming in L.A. said it hadn't known what the movie was about, and the actors apparently didn't, either, Kahn reports. In the trailer, the offensive and blasphemous lines seem to have been dubbed over the actors' original lines.

The Associated Press tracked down a man named Nakoula Basseley Nakoula, who says he managed logistics for the film's production company. Nakoula, 55, has denied directing the film but claims to know Sam Bacile, who is listed as the film's director and purportedly an Israeli Jew.

However, the AP says:

"Federal court papers filed in a 2010 criminal prosecution against him said Nakoula had used numerous aliases in the past. Among the fake names, the documents said, were Nicola Bacily and Erwin Salameh.

"During a conversation outside his home, Nakoula offered his driver's license to show his identity but kept his thumb over his middle name, Basseley. Records checks by the AP subsequently found that middle name as well as other connections to the Bacile persona."

The news agency reports that it traced its calls with Bacile back to Nakoula, who says he is a Coptic Christian and sympathizes with the ideas presented in the movie.

An article in The Atlantic quotes Klein as saying Bacile "is not Israeli, and most likely not Jewish."

The Innocence of Muslims — or, more precisely, clips from the film that were repeatedly shown on an Egyptian TV program and a 14-minute trailer of the film on YouTube (be warned, many have found the video offensive) — has sparked mass demonstrations in Libya, Egypt and Yemen, where protesters have decried the production as blasphemous.

Kahn interviewed Jim Horn, a well known anti-Islam activist in Southern California who says he probably knows the producer but won't divulge his name:

"Horn frequently hands out anti-Islamic pamphlets at area high schools with an insurance salesman named Steve Klein. Klein, who has been linked to a militant Christian hate group, says he was a consultant on the movie and also knows the man called Bacile."

In the story in The Atlantic, Klein claims that:

"After 9/11 I went out to look for terror cells in California and found them, piece of cake. Sam found out about me. The Middle East Christian and Jewish communities trust me."

Gainesville, Fla., Pastor Terry Jones, who sparked deadly riots in Afghanistan two years ago after threatening to burn a copy of the Quran, has denied Egyptian reports he had a hand in producing The Innocence of Muslims. But he told The Daily Beast that he had been in contact with the film's producers and had agreed to promote it.

In a story on Gawker, Cindy Lee Garcia, an actress from Bakersfield, Calif., who had a small role in the film, says she and the other actors were misled about the true nature of the film. She says they thought the film was "about the life of a generic Egyptian 2,000 years ago," according to Gawker.

In a statement sent to CNN, the film's 80-member cast and crew said it was "extremely upset and [feels] taken advantage of by the producer."

"We are 100 percent not behind this film and were grossly misled about its intent and purpose," the statement said. "We are shocked by the drastic rewrites of the script and lies that were told to all involved. We are deeply saddened by the tragedies that have occurred."

Role In Anti-Islam Movie
By EILEEN SULLIVAN
09/13/12

Nakoula Basseley Nakoula Innocence Of Muslims

Yemeni protestors break a door of the U.S. Embassy during a protest about a film ridiculing Islam's Prophet Muhammad, in Sanaa, Yemen, Thursday, Sept. 13, 2012. Dozens of protesters gather in front of the US Embassy in Sanaa to protest against the American film "The Innocence of Muslims" deemed blasphemous and Islamophobic. (AP Photo/Hani Mohammed)

WASHINGTON — A U.S. law enforcement official says a man named Nakoula Basseley Nakoula is behind the anti-Muslim film being blamed for mob attacks in Egypt, Libya and Yemen.

A man who calls himself Sam Bacile has said he created the film, but The Associated Press on Wednesday connected Nakoula to the Bacile persona.

The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss an ongoing investigation.

In an AP interview, Nakoula says he managed logistics for the company that produced the film, which mocked Muslims and the prophet Muhammad. He denies that he was Bacile.

The movie is implicated in inflaming mobs that attacked U.S. missions in Egypt, Libya and Yemen. The U.S. ambassador to Libya and three other Americans were killed.

Nakoula Basseley Nakoula Behind Innocence of Muslims? Film Had L.A. Permit, Production
By Dennis Romero Thu., Sep. 13 2012 at 6:08 AM

Yesterday we asked if the person or people behind the incendiary film Innocence of Muslims were religious zealots.

The answer might be yes.

The San Gabriel Valley Tribune broke the news last night that the permit for the flick's production was taken out by a Duarte group called Media for Christ:

Yeah, you heard right, Media for Christ.

The SGV Tribune also found out that the thing was filmed, at least in part, at Blue Cloud studios, a.k.a. Blue Cloud Movie Ranch, in Santa Clarita.

The Los Angeles Times late last night matched some of the Tribune's info. The paper added that the film was shot in August, 2011 under the title Desert Warriors (which might explain why the actors said they felt duped).

So this puts L.A. right in the middle of a glowing-hot situation that might have helped get a U.S. ambassador in Libya killed along with three other Americans Tuesday. It also seems to have sparked raucous protests in Cairo Wednesday.

Awesome.

The Arab world's reaction to the film -- actually just a YouTube trailer that had been translated into Arabic slightly more than a week ago -- is now the top issue on the Washington agenda.

Using actors in brown face, Innocence of Muslims clowns Islam's most sacred figure, Mohammed, portraying him as, among other bad things, a child molester. Muslims are depicted as savages who kill innocent Christians.

Its producer is said to be an Israel real estate mogul in L.A. named Sam Bacile, who told reporters yesterday that "Islam is a cancer."

Except that maybe Bacile doesn't exist. The Jewish Journal couldn't find anyone who knew him.

Associated Press found out that a 55-year-old Coptic Christian (the Coptic church is the largest Christian religion in the Middle East) and bank-fraud convict named Nakoula Basseley Nakoula who has the same address as that affiliated with a phone number for "Bacile."

It also found that ...

... federal court papers said Nakoula's aliases included Nicola Bacily, Erwin Salameh and others.

Nakoula denied being Bacile but admitted that he was manager for a company that produced the film. AP:

During a conversation outside his home, he offered his driver's license to show his identity but kept his thumb over his middle name, Basseley. Records checks by the AP subsequently found it and other connections to the Bacile persona. The AP located Bacile after obtaining his cell phone number from Morris Sadek, a conservative Coptic Christian in the U.S. who had promoted the anti-Muslim film in recent days on his website.

Part of his 2010 bank fraud plea deal denied him access to the internet. AP found that "Bacile" was posting videos and commenting on articles in recent months and even days.

In the meantime, we found an old Media for Christ MySpace page that says the group produces weekly television programming. It also says:

The International Media is crowded with many topics that do not bring glory to the name of the Lord Jesus Christ . The Lord has given me the vision for Media for Christ so we could proclaim the peace of Jesus through than effective Christian media that would positively touch everyone . In June 2005 by the grace of God Media for Christ was established to become the light that shows Jesus Christ to all human beings.

One listing names Joseph Abdelmasih as the group's director. The Tribune says he's CEO.

And you thought the hot season was over. It's only beginning, with Southern California at the center of a global storm.

This is a good way to summarize the issue in this thread. There are two different rights in conflict here: the right to free speech and the right to human dignity. When speech violates another group's dignity, there should be consequences. I believe that the punishment for such speech should be public vilification rather than criminal penalties.

Well, courts here have the power to decide such ... within the "guideline" of the criminal code/laws.

Is your analogy of "shouting fire in a theatre" equating Muslim sensitivities to the way people react in a theatre when there might be a fire - stampede?

And, if yes, you seemed to feel that gave you the ethical right to proselytize that the United States adopt laws that would restrict the freedom of speech here in the U.S.A.

You see my dear Izzyla, the U.S. is not a cheap knock-off of Europe. We think differently about so many things. We do not have royalty. We do not know if someone is from one country or another, based on nuances of facial features. We are sort of mutts, compared to our pedigreed sophisticates across the pond, Germans can tell a Frenchman, and a Frenchman can tell an Englishman, and on and on.

However, we do not get all riled up because someone says something, or writes something, or displays something, that mocks, criticizes, our different faiths. Think of all the political cartoons in the U.S. for the last two centuries that mocked this or that. Perhaps, Americans have just mastered the art of knowing what is important, and what is not? And, that includes all the immigrant groups that continue to bless our shores. Assimilation into the American culture includes learning how to act.

Perhaps, Europe needs to follow the pedagogy of "The rain in Spain falls mainly on the plain." [Foofie sings, "By God she's got it!"]

Walter, let's be intellectually honest, and agree that the current German constitution was written in context of the digression during the Nazi era.

Ah, but the U.S. does impact on the rest of the world, since so many countries were profligate with their energies, during two world wars in the 20th century. By default the U.S. assumed the position of a world power, not to be outdone by the Soviets, nor the Chinese. So, being realistic, you should not wake up a sleeping lion, in my opinion.

Who are they?

Your adding apples and oranges. Children of prominent Americans are just themselves. Royalty is royalty, from the top of their heads, to the bottom of their toes, and their children's toes too.

Too bad. They were short and show how non-hate speech and be called such by those with an agenda. In neither case would most people call them hate speech but those in power would so they could take a cudgle to opinions they don't like.

No, it illustrates the point exactly. You have the freedom to post and we have the freedom to comment just has someone has the freedom to vilify Islam and we have the freedom to call him a hateful nutjob.

Oy gevalt. Their ain't no such thing as a Jewish church.

Plus, who needs "hate speech" when there is a "gentleman's agreement." With a "knowing wink" many know who to treat less than equal. The Brits are the authors, in my opinion, of that modality of clannishness.

I was in a rush and the term wouldn't come to my head - temple - no hate meant.

So a veiled threat just for suggesting you might want to consider something. How very democratic.

When did A2K become the reflection of the U.S.? Anyway, your concerns were already answered at the Boston Tea Party. Don't tax the U.S. with your limitations on freedom, if we have no representation in your Parliament. [Foofie shouts "Hear! Hear!" in his best imitation of a British member of Parliament.]

You really are terrified of the people you elect aren't you. Your automatic assumption is that as soon as someone is in power they 'take a cudgle to opinions they don't like,' explains why there's so many guns and paranoia your side of the pond.