35
   

Does freedom of speech excuse preaching hate?

 
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Sep, 2012 09:41 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
How can y'all, for a moment, for a microsecond, consider that there is a majority of reasonable Americans when some 10 million innocents have died just since WWII at the hand of the USA?


Agreed, you are not, Hawk.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Sep, 2012 12:05 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
The real problem here David isn't that we disagree on what to do politically,
but that you won't face reality.

You want to blame all Moslems for 9/11, which is absolutely ridiculous.
Well, the attacks of 9/11/1 were done in their name.
We saw them on TV dancing in the streets
while yet the World Trade Center burned, exuberantly celebrating
the doom of the WTC and of its inhabitants, as thay were leaping out
of its windows onto the Plaza below, with the fire at their asses;
this jovial merrymaking included Moslems that we had helped,
e.g. those of Kuwait, who we avenged. It shows who bears us ill will.
(That teaches us something about gratitude and human nature.)

It behooves us to accurately identify who is our friend
and who is our foe. Do u agree with that ??






izzythepush wrote:
At the same time you believe this nonsense about 9/11
being because Moslems hate America's freedoms,
I do. Theocratic totalitarianism is inconsistent with the Supremacy of Individual Liberty.
We r supposed to live in "the Land of the Free". I like it that way.
I am at a loss to understand Y u choose to characterize it
as being: "nonsense".





izzythepush wrote:
and has absolutely nothing to do with America's actions in the Arab world.

That is simply not true.
That is not my position; I did not say that.
U r distorting my beliefs & misrepresenting my opinions.




izzythepush wrote:
Why do you think there were further protests in Libya today?
I have no opinion; I cannot begin to guess.




izzythepush wrote:
Ordinary Moslems, sickened by the attack on the embassy are driving the extremists out.
I don 't pretend to know,
but THAT seems unlikely. I dunno, but I suspect
that it is a lot more likely that thay r just fighting among themselves
for factional advantage. Has that ever happened b4 ?






Quote:
The militia suspected of killing the US ambassador to Libya nearly two weeks ago
has been driven out of its base in the eastern city of Benghazi.
Police and protesters stormed the HQ of the Islamist group Ansar al-Sharia.

The HQ of the Sahaty Brigade, said to have official backing, was also stormed.
At least nine people were killed there, another died elsewhere.

The attack on the US consulate was triggered by an amateur video made in the US which mocks Islam.

Witnesses say supporters of Ansar al-Sharia gathered outside its Benghazi headquarters,
in front of the crowd, waving black and white banners.

They fired into the air to try to disperse the protesters, but fled with their weapons
after the base was surrounded by waves of people shouting "No to militias".
Buildings and a car were set alight and fighters evicted.

In a statement later, a spokesman for the group said militiamen had evacuated
the premises after their commander had ordered to "hand them over to the people of Benghazi" to preserve security.

However, in a standoff outside the headquarters of the Sahaty Brigade in the city, three people were killed
and at least 20 injured according to witnesses and officials.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19680785

izzythepush wrote:
Blaming a whole swathe of people for the actions of a tiny minority
puts you in the same mindset as Torquemada and Himmler.
I got a good laff out of that, Izzy, for which I thank u.
This is the first time that I have been compared to those 2.
Point of Information:
please describe how Torquemada blamed
"a whole swathe of people for the actions of a tiny minority" ?

To which "actions" were u referring ?





David
izzythepush
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 23 Sep, 2012 03:00 am
@OmSigDAVID,
You didn't see all Moslems dancing in the streets, those you saw were mostly Palestinian, and it's not like they didn't have a reason to feel a bit of schadenfreude. If you remember Arafat gave blood for the victims of 9/11 and urged his fellow Palestinians to do the same.

Casting a whole group of people as evil is profoundly simplistic, I'd expect that of an imbecile like Oralboy, but you're supposed to be in Mensa. Surely you realise that thinking in absolutes, without appreciating nuances is not how an intelligent person would think.

Quote:
please describe how Torquemada blamed
"a whole swathe of people for the actions of a tiny minority" ?


What Jews have been blamed for throughout the years, the killing of Christ, although by the time of the Inquisition they were blamed for a load of other things as well.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Sun 23 Sep, 2012 03:15 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
In reality the BBC gets just as many complaints from the left as from the right, which would show they have it about right.

In my opinion the Liberals are worse than the Tories, they made solemn promises they didn't keep just for the pursuit of power. I've never voted Liberal and never will.

As for the only civilians being killed are those family member of terrorists, that's absolute nonsense. Most civilian casualties have had no links to terrorist organisations. Killing 24 allied soldiers is not atypical.

Quote:
Drone strikes were halted in November 2011 after NATO forces killed 24 Pakistani soldiers in the Salala incident. Shamsi Airfield was evacuated of Americans and taken over by the Pakistanis December 2011. The incident prompted an approximately two-month stop to the drone strikes, which resumed on 10 January 2012.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_attacks_in_Pakistan
Walter Hinteler
 
  0  
Reply Sun 23 Sep, 2012 03:38 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

In reality the BBC gets just as many complaints from the left as from the right, which would show they have it about right.

In my opinion the Liberals are worse than the Tories, they made solemn promises they didn't keep just for the pursuit of power. I've never voted Liberal and never will.
I suppose that Ofcom and similar institutions in other countries are something which is unknown in the USA.

(And I agree with your opinion about the Liberals ... besides that I like the "sorry song" Very Happy )
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Sun 23 Sep, 2012 03:44 am
@Walter Hinteler,
There was a letter in The Guardian the other day that likened Clegg's apology to that of an errant husband promising to stay faithful from now on.

It needs to be repeated that one of the Murdoch's chief aims was to get rid of Ofcom, and, had it not been for the revelations about Millie Dowler, they probably would have got away with it too.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Sun 23 Sep, 2012 03:48 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
You didn't see all Moslems dancing in the streets, those you saw were mostly Palestinian,
and it's not like they didn't have a reason to feel a bit of schadenfreude.
Thay showed some Moslems, celebrating our security failures,
dancing in the streets of Kuwait.


izzythepush wrote:
If you remember Arafat gave blood for the victims of 9/11
and urged his fellow Palestinians to do the same.

Casting a whole group of people as evil is profoundly simplistic,
I'd expect that of an imbecile like Oralboy, but you're supposed to be in Mensa.
I have been informed REPEATEDLY
that intelligent people think like the person who is INFORMING me.
I am instructed to understand that this is obvious and that no intelligent man will question it.
It is demanded of me that I see no naked Emperors.



izzythepush wrote:
Surely you realise that thinking in absolutes, without appreciating nuances
is not how an intelligent person would think.
I will concede that not all Moslems were in on the plot.






Quote:
please describe how Torquemada blamed
"a whole swathe of people for the actions of a tiny minority" ?
izzythepush wrote:
What Jews have been blamed for throughout the years, the killing of Christ,
although by the time of the Inquisition they were blamed for a load of other things as well.
I remember when I was 1O. I made friends with a Jewish boy of that age, in Arizona.
The fact that he was Jewish was not significant to me.
I did not think much of it, in particular. I still don 't.
He said: " I 'm lucky that u talk to me at all."
I asked the reason; that was his explanation.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Sep, 2012 04:39 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
I will concede that not all Moslems were in on the plot.


Well obviously David, if that was the case it wouldn't have happened. What you need to do now is accept that not all Moslems sympathise with Al-Qaida and you're there.

For a start Moslems, like Christians, aren't a unified group, there's lots of different denominations, Shia, Sunni and Sufi being the most obvious groupings, but it doesn't end there.

America is a very recent player in a struggle that's been going on for centuries, and as far as the Moslem world is concerned America is just a continuation of the struggle between the Arab world and the West, going back to the crusades. If you don't understand what the problem is/grievances are, you can't hope to find a solution.

At the end of the day most people just want to get on with their lives in peace and security. If the Arab Spring brings employment and a decent standard of living for ordinary Arabs, not just a tiny elite, you'll soon find the extremists influence, and appeal, diminish considerably.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 23 Sep, 2012 06:05 am
@JTT,
JTT wrote:
You are even dumber than Finn, oralboy.


Stop lying. You couldn't even count to my IQ. And Finn is certainly smarter than you as well.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 23 Sep, 2012 06:08 am
@izzythepush,
izzytheNazi wrote:
You didn't see all Moslems dancing in the streets, those you saw were mostly Palestinian, and it's not like they didn't have a reason to feel a bit of schadenfreude.


That was just a year after the US had made a big push to try to bring about a Palestinian state.

The Palestinians supported 9/11 for the same reason they refuse to make peace: they are just scumbags in general (so are the freaks who support them).

They never have a reason for doing it. They're all just vermin.



izzytheNazi wrote:
an imbecile like Oralboy


You trash shouldn't run around falsely accusing your betters of your own stupidity.



izzytheNazi wrote:
Surely you realise that thinking in absolutes, without appreciating nuances is not how an intelligent person would think.


You have no clue what it is like to be intelligent, so stop pretending that you know what it's like.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 23 Sep, 2012 06:14 am
@izzythepush,
izzytheNazi wrote:
In reality the BBC gets just as many complaints from the left as from the right, which would show they have it about right.


Leave the logic to those of us who can handle it, if you don't mind.



izzytheNazi wrote:
As for the only civilians being killed are those family member of terrorists, that's absolute nonsense. Most civilian casualties have had no links to terrorist organisations. Killing 24 allied soldiers is not atypical.

Quote:
Drone strikes were halted in November 2011 after NATO forces killed 24 Pakistani soldiers in the Salala incident. Shamsi Airfield was evacuated of Americans and taken over by the Pakistanis December 2011. The incident prompted an approximately two-month stop to the drone strikes, which resumed on 10 January 2012.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_attacks_in_Pakistan


Nope. Those "soldiers" were terrorists, and they got what they deserved.

And as I recall, those Pakistani "soldiers" were killed by fighter jets, not by drones. It wasn't quite carpetbombing by heavy bombers, but we gave the freaks a sizable dose of TNT.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 23 Sep, 2012 06:24 am
@izzythepush,
izzytheNazi wrote:
America is a very recent player in a struggle that's been going on for centuries, and as far as the Moslem world is concerned America is just a continuation of the struggle between the Arab world and the West, going back to the crusades. If you don't understand what the problem is/grievances are, you can't hope to find a solution.


The Muslims have no grievance. The Crusades (Fourth excepted) were justified self defense after the Muslims invaded people who were doing them no harm, and then kept on attacking and trying to conquer innocent people.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Sun 23 Sep, 2012 07:19 am
@oralloy,
You think that being good at minesweeper denotes intelligence. Your every post screams mind numbing ignorance and stupidity. Plus the same deep level of evil that has made the US such an amoral rogue nation.
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Sep, 2012 07:51 am
@JTT,
JTT wrote:
You think that being good at minesweeper denotes intelligence.


Liar.



JTT wrote:
Your every post screams mind numbing ignorance and stupidity.


Liar.



JTT wrote:
deep level of evil that has made the US such an amoral rogue nation.


Nonsense.
izzythepush
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 23 Sep, 2012 08:03 am
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Your every post screams mind numbing ignorance and stupidity.


That about sums it up.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Sun 23 Sep, 2012 08:03 am
@oralloy,
A fine and typical example of your "intelligence", Oralboy. Suck back that jism, swallow it and go back down on Uncle Sam. See if his next spurt can increase your brights.
0 Replies
 
 

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