23
   

Does freedom of speech excuse preaching hate?

 
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  2  
Reply Wed 12 Sep, 2012 10:07 pm
The Islamists understand us better than do most of us.

These incidents occurred on 9/11/12 and the Useful Idiots not only accept the assertion that they were in response to an insignificant expression of antipathy for Islam, they sympathize with it.

How has it come to pass, in the West, that expressions of antipathy towards Islam are expressions of hate while expressions of antipathy towards Christianity are expressions of rationalism?

How is it that the Left has embraced Islam as a victim while castigating Christianity and Judaeism as oppressors? Despite the fact that the only theocracies in the world are Islamic.

Of course it has nothing to do with religious teachings and everything to do with the affectations of Lefties (Which is to say that childish, pseudo-intellectual subgroup of The Left)

Any of the world's major religions are inherently as profound and as stupid as any other.

Historically, there are great sins to be associated with humans' practice of some of these religions which has nothing to do with the essence of these faiths.

Christianity, as practiced by humans, has a tainted past, while Islam (no stranger to past sins) has a tainted present.

The photo that Cyclo posted is a perfect example of the Useful Idiots at play.

Why should anyone apologize for anyone who mocks Islam and The Prophet?

And how do folks who think it tres chic to mock Christianity (not to mention Mormons) come to the conclusion that it is "intolerant," or Heaven forbid, "hateful," to mock Islam?

Obviously, I don't know, but I supect the answer informs the new defintion of
douchebag.

If you think the Coptic Christians who posted an anti-Islam video on YouTube are hate-mongers, what about the political cartoonists who mocked The Prophet as they have mocked Jesus and every temporal person of power on earth? What about the editors of newspapers who ran the political cartoons? Hate-mongers?

No doubt you feel you are able to draw a distinction between the two, but not so the Islamists. A hell of a lot more people died as a result of the Islamist reaction to these cartoons then as a result of an obscure YouTube video.

Whether or not these apologizing fools realize it, their appeasment invites further violence.

The sort of people who rely on murder to advance their goals tend to have a very stark view of strength and weakness and don't see an ability to grapple with ambiguity, or the nuanced thinking of Lefties as a strength.

For two centuries, America's freedom of speech trumped any concern for "preaching hate," in very large measure due to a faith in Americans, and the power of free speech to eventually counter any abuse of it.

The restrictions that exist on free speech in America are very easily explained and recognizes, and offer no wiggle-room for tyrants.

There is no room in America for restrictions on anti-Islamic speech.

And if you don't believe me, ask the ACLU.

Clearly I don't agree with leftist ideology, but I accept that an intelligent leftist is able to construct an (almost) rational argument if favor of his or her ideology. I don't agree with leftists, but I appreciate those who are consistent with their idological arguments.

I have nothing but scorn, however, for Lefties who embrace some idiotic, New Wave goal of vanquishing hate as a meaningful ideological position. My utter contempt kicks in when these same Lefties preach this nonsense in defense of true hate-mongers.

Lenin would have sneered at you and Stalin would have shot you.


JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Sep, 2012 10:09 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
You have to understand Max, speech is not a protected freedom in the UK,


You sure weren't running up the steps of the Capitol screaming about FofS when the Dixie Chicks pointed out what an idiot the US had as a president in Bush, Finn.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  3  
Reply Wed 12 Sep, 2012 10:20 pm
@JTT,
Yes I was
Cycloptichorn
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 12 Sep, 2012 10:38 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:

Why should anyone apologize for anyone who mocks Islam and The Prophet?


Because it's something a Dick would do. It helps nothing to do so.

I believe all religious people are equally crazy and stupid, but you don't see me making movies about it.

Cycloptichorn
Finn dAbuzz
 
  3  
Reply Wed 12 Sep, 2012 10:53 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
So you apologize for every "Dick" in the world.

How does that work out in terms of apologizing for yourself?

What difference does it make whether or not making a movie helps anything?

By that argument, I guess you consider Michael Moore a "Dick."

No one would watch your movies if you made them just as no one one watched the movie in question until the Islamists claimed it was a reason to murder our Ambassador and Lefties apologized for it.

Let's be clear: You believe Muslims deserve an apology from Americans because of an anti-Islam YouTube video?

Really?



hawkeye10
 
  3  
Reply Wed 12 Sep, 2012 11:00 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
So you apologize for every "Dick" in the world.


"apology" is I believe one of the many words which has been completely redefined over my lifetime. When I was coming up the only one who could apologize was the one who committed the wrong. most often an "apology" now is a statement of condemnation of someone elses act, not a statement of contrition as it was originally.

here we have seen yet another perfectly good word largely ruined by expansive redefining of it into uselessness.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 13 Sep, 2012 01:08 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
That's rubbish Finn. The gunman killed himself. He wasn't arrested.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 13 Sep, 2012 01:10 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

The Islamists understand us better than do most of us.

These incidents occurred on 9/11/12 and the Useful Idiots not only accept the assertion that they were in response to an insignificant expression of antipathy for Islam, they sympathize with it.

How has it come to pass, in the West, that expressions of antipathy towards Islam are expressions of hate while expressions of antipathy towards Christianity are expressions of rationalism?


Absolute paranoid nonsense, you're casting yourself as a victim again Finn.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  3  
Reply Thu 13 Sep, 2012 01:10 am
izzythepush wrote:

Absolute rubbish, we are much more free than you are in America, with your biased media, appalling education system and 'kill the poor' health service. You've got a bunch of oligarchs running most of the show, and if anyone steps out of line like the Dixie Chicks they're publicly vilified.

then why did Prince Harry need to come all the way to Vegas to romp around naked and grope women?
izzythepush
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 13 Sep, 2012 01:16 am
@maxdancona,
We had this debate before the legislation was passed. We do have a very long tradition of freedom of speech, and there was fear that comedians and artists could fall foul of the legislation.

So far none of that has happened, it has been very sensibly applied. And people are free to say what they want as long as they tell the truth.

izzythepush
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 13 Sep, 2012 01:19 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Absolute rubbish, we are much more free than you are in America, with your biased media, appalling education system and 'kill the poor' health service. You've got a bunch of oligarchs running most of the show, and if anyone steps out of line like the Dixie Chicks they're publicly vilified.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Thu 13 Sep, 2012 01:21 am
@hawkeye10,
Probably because he thought he'd be away from the gaze of the British Media, and he was with people he could trust.

He's learnt a lesson.
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Thu 13 Sep, 2012 01:26 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Probably because he thought he'd be away from the gaze of the British Media, and he was with people he could trust.

He's learnt a lesson.

the theory is that he wanted this attention, that the whole idea was to get the Queen to approve his going to war thus putting himself in harms way. But he could not do his plan in your country, you are not that free there, he had to come here.
izzythepush
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 13 Sep, 2012 01:31 am
@hawkeye10,
Don't talk rot. The queen can't tell him what to do, no more than any grandparent.

He's going as a helicopter pilot. His last, more riskier, assignment was leaked by American newspapers and had to be cut short.

At least he's putting his life on the line. How many children of prominent Americans are doing their bit for the country?
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Thu 13 Sep, 2012 01:38 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
But he could not do his plan in your country, you are not that free there, he had to come here.


Do you really think Harry was not free to get up to hijinks in the UK? Seriously?

There's plenty of girls willing to throw themselves at him. Amsterdam is a far better place to let it all hang out than Vegas. You won't get arrested for smoking a spliff there.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 13 Sep, 2012 02:32 am
@hawkeye10,
Any defence of freedom of speech is meaningless when lies are given the same amount of respect as the truth. When push came to shove, during the run up to the Iraq war, the American Media caved in to the demands of the Bush administartion and towed the party line.

Quote:
Battered by accusations of a liberal bias and determined to prove their conservative critics wrong, the press during the run-up to the war -- timid, deferential, unsure, cautious, and often intentionally unthinking -- came as close as possible to abdicating its reason for existing in the first place, which is to accurately inform citizens, particularly during times of great national interest. Indeed, the MSM's failings were all the more important because of the unusually influential role they played in advance of the war-of-choice with Iraq. "When America has been attacked -- at Pearl Harbor, or as on September 11 -- the government needed merely to tell the people that it was our duty to respond, and the people rightly conferred their authority," noted Harold Meyerson in the American Prospect magazine. "But a war of choice is a different matter entirely. In that circumstance, the people will ask why. The people will need to be convinced that their sons and daughters and husbands and wives should go halfway around the world to fight a nemesis that they didn't really know was a nemesis."

It's not fair to suggest the MSM alone convinced Americans to send some sons and daughter to fight. But the press went out of its way to tell a pleasing, administration-friendly tale about the pending war. In truth, Bush never could have ordered the invasion of Iraq -- never could have sold the idea at home -- if it weren't for the help he received from the MSM, and particularly the stamp of approval he received from so-called liberal media institutions such as the Washington Post, which in February of 2003 alone, editorialized in favor of war nine times. (Between September 2002 and February 2003, the paper editorialized twenty-six times in favor of the war.) The Post had plenty of company from the liberal East Coast media cabal, with high-profile columnists and editors -- the newfound liberal hawks -- at the New Yorker, Newsweek, Time, the New York Times, the New Republic and elsewhere all signing on for a war of preemption. By the time the invasion began, the de facto position among the Beltway chattering class was clearly one that backed Bush and favored war. Years later the New York Times Magazine wrote that most "journalists in Washington found it almost inconceivable, even during the period before a fiercely contested midterm election [in 2002], that the intelligence used to justify the war might simply be invented." Hollywood peace activists could conceive it, but serious Beltway journalists could not? That's hard to believe. More likely journalists could conceive it but, understanding the MSM unspoken guidelines -- both social and political -- were too timid to express it at the time of war.


http://online.santarosa.edu/presentation/page/?37018

“Any dictator would admire the uniformity and obedience of the U.S. media.”

Noam Chomsky
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Sep, 2012 06:40 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Really, Finn? No, really, Finn?
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Thu 13 Sep, 2012 06:57 am
@izzythepush,
You are mixing two arguments together Izzy.

When you make it illegal to express certain opinions you are, by definition, limiting speech. This means you no longer have freedom of speech. This is the very definition of of term "Freedom of Speech", that you can express opinions no matter how offensive they are (since non-offensive opinions don't need to be protected by freedom of speech).

So it is true, by definition, that England restricts the freedom of speech.

Now I get that your are arguing that it doesn't make a difference. But this is different argument.

That fact that, in your opinion, limiting the Freedom of Speech doesn't hurt society doesn't take away the fact that Freedom of Speech isn't being limited.

All I am asking is that you be honest about what you are arguing rather than making the absurd claim that laws about what opinions people can or can't express don't constitute limit on speech.
Linkat
 
  2  
Reply Thu 13 Sep, 2012 07:06 am
@engineer,
I agree fully - we would have people dropping down dead every where if that were the cause. Come on, you need to be realistic. What about the opposite, when Americans are being called every scum bag thing in the world. Should we go bomb their assess when they are dancing in the street shouting hateful and evil things about us?

Damn both Obama and Romney would be killing half the people here on A2k if that were the case.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  2  
Reply Thu 13 Sep, 2012 07:10 am
@izzythepush,
who then makes the judgement call on what is spreading hate. If someone were to call me a b*tch is that hate? If some one were to say all Americans should be killed is that hate?

Where do you draw the line?
 

Related Topics

New A2K is Anti-Free Speech - Question by Brandon9000
Oh My God - Discussion by cjhsa
Is free speech an illusion? - Question by Angelgz2
Time To Boycott EA games? - Discussion by RexRed
Four Dead In O-Hi-O - Discussion by realjohnboy
respect or free speech? - Discussion by dyslexia
The Case of the Cursing Cheerleader - Discussion by engineer
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.04 seconds on 05/01/2024 at 02:02:10