Viability of foreverness

@dalehileman,

piece of **** insulting u is shiting on ur kind no anger can ****, on the contrary only laxatifs can give such generous result of pur logics descriptions to what must b **** upon in quantity of forever where ur viability there depend on ur insisting will alone shitty freak inferior **** head

2 Replies

@imans,

and obviously u r the one that seek help by constantly meaning that **** jesus supports to ur dirty claims about any, and since u cant say a word about urself out of all while keeping pathetically meaning to hold any grasp on everything and all to sound existing to itself

1 Reply

@imans,

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meaning that **** jesus supports to ur dirty claims

No not exactly Christian but apodictical existential pantheist

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since u cant say a word about urself

Specifically Im what would you like to know about me

Or just Google my username

1 Reply

@dalehileman,

I am a skeptic regarding our big concepts, forever, infinite, Truth, etc. I think they reflect our nature and this is seen in the fact that we cannot imagine existence stopping, not going on "forever." The same applies to infinity and Truth.

1 Reply

@Cyracuz,

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But no matter how you spin it, it isn't something that can be known at the present moment, so all we can do is believe.

I would argue that we can "believe" if we choose...but that if far from the only thing we can do.

One thing we can do is simply to acknowledge that we seem unable to know...and then decide not to make any guesses--especially since the evidence in any direction seems ambiguous.

I do love making guesses...and speculations about some of the more interesting and intriguing possibilities. Maybe the universe actually is infinite and eternal. IF so, it seems reasonable to guess that anything and everything does and has happened...infinitely.

But even thinking about infinite and eternal is like thinking about nothingness--and ordeal. Personally, I'd rather think about my golf swing.

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@oralloy,

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Reality is reality.

Yup...it certainly is.

Quote:

After awhile there will be no more stars.

After a longer while, there will be no more matter.

Only if that is Reality--which it may not be.

1 Reply

@dalehileman,

dalehileman wrote:

In our nonetheless pantheistic view my No. 2 Son and I disagree on the likelihood of everything possible happening. My position is that if any anything that can happen, will happen, it's inevitable, and in fact, it will happen an infinite number of times, then for example at this very moment for instance there have already been an infinite number of universes in which everything is identical except that one hair on your arm is 0.00001 cm longer, or one Planck Unit, longer

This calls into q the idea of forever. However, the alternative, creation, occurrence, then end, is even more intuitionally unacceptable. Do you have an alternative

I honestly don't see how you go from multi-verse or multiple realities on top of each other with slight variances to foreverness. (not even sure what foreverness even is)

If there are multiple realities with slight variances I don't see the point of them. Since we only experience one of them and not all of them then it is meaningless. So what if there is an alternate reality where you are the president and pigs fly and elephants are american household pets? Where does foreverness come into it? Just because there can be an infinite amount of possibilities it doesn't mean all of them are endless. You still have the laws of physics to deal with and the expansion rate of the universe.

If the universe expansion continues to accelerate eventually the space in between atoms will start to expand and eventually overcome the strong force pulling all atoms apart in the process. Nothing would be left except expanding space.

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@dalehileman,

dalehileman wrote:

oralloy wrote:
After a longer while, there will be no more matter.

Really
That’s hard to entertain but I wonder if you could send me—us—a link defending that position

Note the part on proton decay here:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/particles/proton.html

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@dalehileman,

dalehileman wrote:

oralloy wrote:
strongly indicates that the universe is infinite in volume.

I presume then, Ora, that our Universe is a tiny speck in an infinite, otherwise empty space,

No. Space is a concept that is internal to the universe. It does not exist outside the universe.

dalehileman wrote:

....but on the other hand, if there’s matter everywhere and its rules are all the same, then there are an infinite number of—say—“visible” productions, an infinite number of each and every possible one, which Intuition finds not only distasteful but absurd. My Intuition anyway

The rules are not all the same. They vary from one part of the universe to another. However, if you were to travel far enough you'd eventually come to a spot with the same rules are our corner of the universe.

Yes. Given the infinite nature of the universe, there is likely much duplication if one were able to travel far enough.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

oralloy wrote:
After awhile there will be no more stars.

After a longer while, there will be no more matter.

Only if that is Reality--which it may not be.

There is only a finite amount of fuel for stars. That there will one day be no more stars is definitely reality.

Even if protons do not decay, eventually all matter will be swallowed up by black holes and radiated as Hawking radiation, so the end of matter is inevitable as well.

1 Reply

@Krumple,

Krumple wrote:

If the universe expansion continues to accelerate eventually the space in between atoms will start to expand and eventually overcome the strong force pulling all atoms apart in the process. Nothing would be left except expanding space.

Chances are local forces will still be able to hold local items together.

But once there are no longer any protons and neutrons, there won't be any atoms to pull apart.

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@oralloy,

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There is only a finite amount of fuel for stars.

You KNOW that how????

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That there will one day be no more stars is definitely reality.

You KNOW that how????

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Even if protons do not decay, eventually all matter will be swallowed up by black holes and radiated as Hawking radiation, so the end of matter is inevitable as well.

How the hell do you KNOW that???

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@Frank Apisa,

...his speculations are accurate scientific speculations...I guess he knows it by hearing it or thinking about it guided with some data...is there any other way of knowing ?

...and while I know what he means I don't know what you mean to ask...

1 Reply

@Fil Albuquerque,

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...his speculations are accurate scientific speculations...I guess he knows it by hearing it or thinking about it guided with some data...is there any other way of knowing ?

Actually, Fil, his speculations are simply his speculations. If you want to give them greater meaning by calling them "accurate scientific speculations" that is your prerogative. But I think most scientists would probably say that they do not know for certain what is going to happen...or even if the thing we call the universe is actually the universe or merely a part of it that happens to be a part we can "see."

The matter...atoms and such...came from somewhere--IF it actually is here now. One possibility is that it does not exist now...not as matter and not even as energy as we know it. This entire thing MAY BE an illusion of one mind.

Quote:

...and while I know what he means I don't know what you mean to ask...

What I mean to ask is: Is this something you know...or is it just a guess or speculation.

Obviously you think it is speculation. I'm just wondering what he thinks.

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@Frank Apisa,

1- But who said knows X or Y for certain eh ? you are just dodging the issue at hand Frank, nothing more...still don't get what you meant to ask there other then entertaining the obvious...

2 - Came from somewhere, so what ? eventually you get stuck with IS HERE or are you up for an infinite regress debate, is that it ? matter can even come out of energy in space Frank...so what ? Did you have a point to make, or any good reason to suggest other opinion ? I would be glad to hear it if you have one...

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@Fil Albuquerque,

...In fact it would be far clever to address "substance" a far wider term instead of matter...if anything foreverness of substance will always be since nothingness cannot be...

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@imans,

you are so willingful to b stupid that it obviously exhibit showing the evil u r by ur own will

somthg must stop u from using words, u dont matter but words do, at least morally out of freedom values that superior freedoms realize clearly but it says true values that must b proven never touched ever as being absolutely superior to all dirt in realities

so for sure u gonna b true animals soon of course this is my guess and nothing of what i say is objectively sure but always absolutely subjectively truly sure

true animals for once and for all so not possessed or having any excuse of rights to think and act for urselves as free thingies
true animals that cant open their mouth but to eat never to speak or having hands to write
u r possessed by forces and evil forces for sure but the point is what u r not present while enjoying pretending its superiority sense for any matter u can get to feel possessing, relating u to a subjective sense of being from else superiorities present possessions

so, being true animal would be much more superior to what u r now in the sense of relative present reactions, while u wont speak and surely head down

it is obvious to me that the end would b clear when the up of now is thrown down and down of now is lifted up, so what u call gods must b faced till they run down scared of up truth and what are called animals should b freed by true existence superior values to all, leaving those bodies to their true possessors from up those gods animal life
so for u that love god, ur end is surely by accepting being part of god life as an animal down while he would b enjoying having u as one life true so very limited and forever repeated same thing down and never daring pretending knowing about anythng else even around

those things must b said, that absolute lackness of true picture to any is the reason of absolute darkness powers on all existence where the most inferiors drives are the only ones moving braves in the sense of **** bravure of course

1 Reply

@imans,

my previous post was simply meaning to say one thing

morons, if stars are really not existing then they wont appear to any present claim of being, and if u r not then whatever u hear is to nonexistence sources

the word reality is nothing to what u know about

reality is with else that is why the space become definitely present since not only one absolutely there
existence is not a game u can fake

we dont know what truth is behind stars matters but we can objectively claim that this matter is at certain point real with smthg else present now, like ur bodies are now real with else fact matters explainin how u appear being smthg or an object thinky

but objective relations will always exist more if any is simply itself freedom, bc freedom is truth so true reality would appear existing in some ways of matters mayb willed too to stay free in control of itself fully

1 Reply

@imans,

truth is superiority that is for sure, noone can say objective thing bc anyone is relative so as free out of all it cant see anything, but it can guess from what anyone know the truth of all as knowing itself truth from being itself freedom

so freedom from freedom when truth is freedom superior value, which confirm existence being real

when truth is absolute freedom value as necessary the superior fact so superiority existing
then any move out of being free pointing an absolute freedom value being existing, is a reason to objective reality, as the still proving superiority being objectively true, and reason to subjects realities as the still stands that mean to consider else superiority as a fact existing more then itself freedom value fact, so the sharing space with else superiority from recognizing its superior right

but this is just to give a sight of what truth is like, noone has to do anything, it is all fully objective existence alone based on freedom superiority

matters are realities much more true superiority then u, that is why it appears foreverness to u while u insist to put it down in order to put urself viability first as its reason sight

we will always have existence when freedom superiority could appear by comparaison to all freedom values that exist absolutely
and freedom superiority could also be recognized alone without any comparaison to all but simply by else consideration of its superiority
knowing that in truth what consider superiority is more superior then superiority as having superior quality to superiority which explain why it can say what is superior and what is not by else quality judgment that is superior, and it is not love at all
love is to inferiority

it is from knowing absolute value the most, then recognizing true freedom values out of knowing absolute values
so absolute is all to values objective qualities
and freedom is all to superiority relative rights

when any is only absolutely existing as anything objectively real, then relative cant exist in principle but with the exception of freedom rights from superiority rights being always the first reason of existence, so what is beyond superiority as beyond absolute values is free relative right to exist and appear as a creator or real anything it wants

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

oralloy wrote:
There is only a finite amount of fuel for stars.

You KNOW that how????

By noting the fact that there haven't been any sightings of fresh stellar fuel being created out of nothingness.

The only fuel the stars have to burn, is what already exists for them to burn.

Frank Apisa wrote:

oralloy wrote:
That there will one day be no more stars is definitely reality.

You KNOW that how????

By noting the fact that there is only a finite amount of fuel for stars.

A finite supply, no matter how vast, will still one day run out.

Frank Apisa wrote:

oralloy wrote:
Even if protons do not decay, eventually all matter will be swallowed up by black holes and radiated as Hawking radiation, so the end of matter is inevitable as well.

How the hell do you KNOW that???

Quantum tunneling will eventually transform all elements (if matter still exists) into iron. This is done by causing nuclei to spontaneously occupy the same spot and fuse into a heavier element.

On an even longer timescale, quantum tunneling will cause enough atoms (by this time all atoms are iron atoms) to spontaneously occupy the same spot with enough density to create a small black hole, which will then devour the rest of the object. As the endless eons pass, eventually such an event will happen to all collections of atoms.

Chances are, neither will come to pass. Because chances are, matter will have already ceased to exist long before the universe gets old enough for this to happen.

But if matter doesn't cease to exist by some other means, this process is sure to get it in the end.

4 Replies

Viability of foreverness

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