Viability of foreverness

@dalehileman,

dalehileman wrote:

In our nonetheless pantheistic view my No. 2 Son and I disagree on the likelihood of everything possible happening. My position is that if any anything that can happen, will happen, it's inevitable, and in fact, it will happen an infinite number of times, then for example at this very moment for instance there have already been an infinite number of universes in which everything is identical except that one hair on your arm is 0.00001 cm longer, or one Planck Unit, longer

This calls into q the idea of forever. However, the alternative, creation, occurrence, then end, is even more intuitionally unacceptable. Do you have an alternative

Well, the universe is infinite in size, so it is certainly plausible that endless duplication is happening right now, if one were to travel far enough through the endless bounds of the universe.

However, I would not be so confident in foreverness along the time axis of the universe.

The universe is very likely to continue forever, but we won't be there with it.

First, there is a finite amount of fuel for stars. It'll be a long time coming, but the day will come when there are no longer any stars burning anywhere in the universe.

Also, protons and neutrons almost certainly have a half life. It'll be a very very very long time coming. But there will almost certainly be a day when there are no protons or neutrons left in the universe.

2 Replies

@oralloy,

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Well, the universe is infinite in size,

Science isn’t sure. Intuition says finite

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so it is certainly plausible that endless duplication is happening right now,

Exactly why Intuition objects. If infinite, than there must be an infinite number each of every possible galaxy, this very instant an infinite number of identical Oras chatting with an infinite number of identical Dales; intuitively very objectionable

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However, I would not be so confident in foreverness along the time axis of the universe.

Sorry but that observation seems to contradict your next one

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The universe is very likely to continue forever, but we won't be there with it.

Foreverness also has an infinite number of identical Oras and Dales, they’re just spaced apart in time. Very far apart. But Intuition objects for much the same reasons

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First, there is a finite amount of fuel for stars.

Right you are

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It'll be a long time coming, but the day will come when there are no longer any stars burning anywhere in the universe.

Absolutely true

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......But there will almost certainly be a day when there are no protons or neutrons left in the universe.

Intuition also objects to the dreary, hopeless idea of that huge number of particles and objects mutually accelerating apart forever. Intuition has it eventually all coming back together

Serial productions

However there’s still no satisfying Intuition unless you introduce a God

1 Reply

@dalehileman,

dalehileman wrote:

oralloy wrote:
Well, the universe is infinite in size,

Science isn’t sure. Intuition says finite

Science is pretty sure that the universe is infinite in volume. It shows in the pattern of the cosmic microwave background radiation.

dalehileman wrote:

oralloy wrote:
However, I would not be so confident in foreverness along the time axis of the universe.

Sorry but that observation seems to contradict your next one

Empty space should continue forever, but most of the contents of that space will not continue forever.

dalehileman wrote:

oralloy wrote:
The universe is very likely to continue forever, but we won't be there with it.

Foreverness also has an infinite number of identical Oras and Dales, they’re just spaced apart in time. Very far apart.

Not without any more stars, and not without any more protons and neutrons.

dalehileman wrote:

oralloy wrote:
......But there will almost certainly be a day when there are no protons or neutrons left in the universe.

Intuition also objects to the dreary, hopeless idea of that huge number of particles and objects mutually accelerating apart forever.

There won't be much left in the way of particles and objects after all the protons and neutrons decay away.

dalehileman wrote:

Intuition has it eventually all coming back together

Hard to see what would make it collapse. Even without the cosmological constant, there would not be enough mass in the universe to pull it back together (that also shows in the pattern of the cosmic microwave background radiation).

And the cosmological constant is making the universe accelerate apart faster and faster.

1 Reply

@dalehileman,

i hate how logics are forever abused for smthg else by pretending being logical

if there is a repetition of smthg then there are a truth not that thing repeated exist nor repetition by its fact, this is by logics deduced not by knowing it or knowing anything else

a thing repeated cant b existing when thing existence by any and all logics would stabilize to evolve realistically since existing

and also repetition is in all logics opposition to constancy of fact when repetition is the constant fact pointed so it cant b true

the problem is in ur will that is why u cant mean anything

viability of foreverness??? when forever by its fact is surely living more then any viability terms
or when viability is the contradiction to forever as meaning resistence to smthg else so cant b out of forever fact of itself

when u mean to see only u then as u r only u became vulgar object form in sizes that inspire vomit or **** forever viable yes

1 Reply

@dalehileman,

If time and space are infinite, everything that can happen will happen. But it's not so much a fact as a inevitable consequence of if. The second part of the statement is only true on the premise defined in the first part.

If the universe repeats in endless cycles (another if), there is no reason to assume that an almost identical 'me' has or will ever exist. In another cycle of the universe, earlier events may have unfolded so that me existing was no longer a possibility, in which case it would not happen.

There was a theory, more of a speculation perhaps, about the universe going in cycles. If you want to express it in religious terms, you could say that God became the universe. And the universe will inevitably become God, at which point nothing but God will exist, and he will become a new universe.

Or you can spin it in scientific words, from the Big Bang, through a cycle that ends and begins with another Big Bang.

But no matter how you spin it, it isn't something that can be known at the present moment, so all we can do is believe.

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@oralloy,

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Science is pretty sure that the universe is infinite in volume

That’s a new one on me, Ora

search&sclient=psy-ab&oq=Science+is+pretty+sure+that+the+universe+is+infinite+in+volume.+&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=f881d8f06d78afdd&biw=1588&bih=857

If it’s infinite and anything that can happen will, then at this moment there are an infinite number of identical galaxies in which one Ora is chatting with one Dale, the only difference perhaps one hair on the back of Ora’s hand is 0.000000001 cm or one quantum unit shorter, a conclusion that Intuition rejects wholeheartedly

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Empty space should continue forever, but most of the contents of that space will not continue forever.

Ora you’ll have to elaborate on that. As I understood it, matter and energy can change form but not be destroyed

Foreverness also has an infinite number of identical Oras and Dales, they’re just spaced apart in time. Very far apart.

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Not without any more stars, and not without any more protons and neutrons.

See previous interchange

dalehileman wrote:
Intuition has it eventually all coming back together

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Hard to see what would make it collapse.

Presumably the Big Bang has everything accelerating mutually apart (yes, I know there’s arisen recently some doubt about this, but there’s doubt about everything) with the Universe "ending up” in a hopeless “thinning out forever” as I’ve described
I merely see it all coming back together again. Serial Universes

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there would not be enough mass in the universe to pull it back together

Yes I realize that’s the theory. Nothingness, Big Bang, frantic activity, finally coldly scattering forever

Okay maybe that’s the way it is but it’s very unsatisfying and full of loose ends

1 Reply

@imans,

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i hate how logics are forever abused for smthg else by pretending being logical

I presume Im that by “logics” you mean “Intuitions”. I only maintain that Intuition is a whole lot more powerful that we give it credit for

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if there is a repetition of smthg then there are a truth not that thing repeated exist nor repetition by its fact, this is by logics deduced not by knowing it or knowing anything else

I presume you’re denying that “given forever, anything that can happen, will.” True, I can’t prove it, it’s purely intuitive

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a thing repeated cant b existing when thing existence by any and all logics would stabilize to evolve realistically since existingand also repetition is in all logics opposition to constancy of fact when repetition is the constant fact pointed so it cant b true

Sorry Im, you’ll have to clarify or perhaps ask another participant to do so

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the problem is in ur will that is why u cant mean anything

Yes Im I’m terribly wilful but I really do mean what I assert

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viability of foreverness??? when forever by its fact is surely living more then any viability terms or when viability is the contradiction to forever as meaning resistence to smthg else so cant b out of forever fact of itself

By that expression I mean the probability of no beginning, no end, which I find unlikely but which you seem to be defending. I just don’t understand your defense

Though I can’t explain any alternative

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when u mean to see only u then as u r only u became vulgar object form in sizes that inspire vomit or **** forever viable yes

My goodness, Im

1 Reply

@Cyracuz,

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If time and space are infinite, everything that can happen will happen.

Seems obvious to me

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But it's not so much a fact as a inevitable consequence of if. The second part of the statement is only true on the premise defined in the first part.

Well put Cyr

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If the universe repeats in endless cycles (another if), there is no reason to assume that an almost identical 'me' has or will ever exist.

But why not, if anything that can happen, will

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In another cycle of the universe, earlier events may have unfolded so that me existing was no longer a possibility, in which case it would not happen.

Yes of course Cyr. You might be misunderstanding my assertions. Each succeeding Universe will ordinarily be vastly different from the preceding one even though it’s following the same rules. But given forever it will eventually be reproduced in detail

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There was a theory, more of a speculation perhaps, about the universe going in cycles.

Yes, I always thought it hopeful

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If you want to express it in religious terms, you could say that God became the universe.

Interesting you should so speculate. However as an apodictical existential pantheist I wouldn’t say “became” but “is"

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And the universe will inevitably become God, at which point nothing but God will exist, and he will become a new universe.

Yes Cyr that’s more or less my prop. Serial Gods; except see last exchange

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Or you can spin it in scientific words, from the Big Bang, through a cycle that ends and begins with another Big Bang.

Bang! Cyr, that’s It, you’ve nailed it

I cap “It” ’cause It is She

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But no matter how you spin it, it isn't something that can be known at the present moment,

Precisely. Yet all that’s known seems to be pointing that way

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so all we can do is believe.

Or hope

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@dalehileman,

dalehileman wrote:

If it’s infinite and anything that can happen will, then at this moment there are an infinite number of identical galaxies in which one Ora is chatting with one Dale, the only difference perhaps one hair on the back of Ora’s hand is 0.000000001 cm or one quantum unit shorter

Yes. Thus my original statement:

"so it is certainly plausible that endless duplication is happening right now, if one were to travel far enough through the endless bounds of the universe"

dalehileman wrote:

a conclusion that Intuition rejects wholeheartedly

Reality is reality.

dalehileman wrote:

Ora you’ll have to elaborate on that. As I understood it, matter and energy can change form but not be destroyed

After awhile there will be no more stars.

After a longer while, there will be no more matter.

dalehileman wrote:

Foreverness also has an infinite number of identical Oras and Dales, they’re just spaced apart in time. Very far apart.

You can't have people if you don't have matter.

2 Replies

@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

But no matter how you spin it, it isn't something that can be known at the present moment, so all we can do is believe.

The pattern of the cosmic microwave background radiation strongly indicates that the universe is infinite in volume.

The universe is likely to continue forever. However, stares will only last a finite length of time. And matter will only last a finite length of time. There will not be an infinite repetition down the axis of time, due to the simple fact that eventually there will no longer be any matter.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

a conclusion that Intuition rejects wholeheartedly

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Reality is reality.

Quite so, Ora. Maybe the whole exercise is one of hopeless, meaningless exchanges of energy and matter bouncing off one another

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After a longer while, there will be no more matter.

Really
That’s hard to entertain but I wonder if you could send me—us—a link defending that position

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After a longer while, there will be no more matter.

However I do like it better than the “infinite scattering” that seems to prevail. Given the end of nothing but space—as I am presuming you mean—maybe there’s hope for spontaneous creation

1 Reply

@oralloy,

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strongly indicates that the universe is infinite in volume.

I presume then, Ora, that our Universe is a tiny speck in an infinite, otherwise empty space, an idea that really strains the credibility since it’s so full of contradiction and paradox. My cred anyway

....but on the other hand, if there’s matter everywhere and its rules are all the same, then there are an infinite number of—say—“visible” productions, an infinite number of each and every possible one, which Intuition finds not only distasteful but absurd. My Intuition anyway

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@dalehileman,

u surely are nothing but ur will, wat intuition moron, what u claim being an intuition is all of u to get or prove but u cant in anyway call ur intuitions logical or logics essence, which show at what extend u believe being all of ur own will not even a fact of what u r, just bc u want to be all

intuition as its literal form prove it, is about one subjective opinion upon else point, so it has nothing to do at all with logics when it involves absolutely relative opinion
logics on the contrary is the reality of the logorithm that involve never any

how dare u confuse those clear opposites is the **** u prove being by ur own will piece of freak liar

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@imans,

n since when im the one that defend no begining and no end when in fact im the only one that assert the true begining and the true end, shitty u gonna get what u want but in truth terms, wilfully hen\ wait u gonna reach the forever constancy of ur viability

1 Reply

@imans,

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.......u cant in anyway call ur intuitions logical or logics essence,

Some do, claiming that it’s a superior form of subconscious reason

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.....even a fact of what u r, just bc u want to be all

Yes I guess I do possess a massive ego

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intuition as its literal form prove it, is about one subjective opinion upon else point,

Indeed subjective

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so it has nothing to do at all with logics when it involves absolutely relative opinion

See 1st interchange

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logics on the contrary is the reality of the logorithm that involve never any

Forgive me Im but never any what

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how dare u confuse those clear opposites is the **** u prove being by ur own will piece of freak liar

Goodness but I must be a terrible person

1 Reply

@imans,

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n since when im the one that defend no begining and no end when in fact im the only one that assert the true begining and the true end,

Forgive me again Im but that sounds contradictory

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shitty u gonna get what u want but in truth terms, wilfully hen\ wait u gonna reach the forever constancy of ur viability

Sorry Im but I don’t follow at all, could you clarify

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@dalehileman,

no noone do that except liars like u, it is ridiculous to call ur intuitions logics when intuitions are all for urself life so never for objective identifications to be about, only morons like u exhibit a feeling of pride to not feel being any shame as a liar and cheap opportunist, as if others care about that more then urself, **** u moron insulting u is only to guarantee ur hell end so u cant keep existing n use words expressions in free dimension of else rights

opportunists are the opposite of business care, right people are busy shitty they dont have any second to waste in ur crap, so they call any up to burry u alive sooner as possible, since they are real so they cant move away more then wat they already did

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@imans,

sub conscious or sub ject ive, so wether out of ur own stand or within ur stand realisation, is same fact of being opposite to logics when logics is what is never through one
any student in philosophy major know that, what logics is exclusively through absolute reasonnings as the base of objective perspectives isolations while pointing free realities being of truth value ends

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@imans,

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no noone do that except liars like u,

Help someone, do I seem to lie

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it is ridiculous to call ur intuitions logics

Yes no, not all my intuitions are strictly logical

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when intuitions are all for urself life so never for objective identifications to be about,

Yes, no, Intuition is often wrong

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only morons like u exhibit a feeling of pride to not feel being any shame as a liar and cheap opportunist,

Gee Im you seem terribly angry about nothing at all. Honestly you might seek help

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as if others care about that more then urself, **** u moron ........

In 17 years doing this sort of thing I’ve not been attacked so forcefully. I wonder Im if you could reveal something about yourself, your age, where you live, what sort of schooling you’ve had, under what circumstances were you raised, what’s your native language, your religion, etc etc

Perhaps another participant smarter than I could translate what you’re asserting whereupon I might reply in a more precise manner

1 Reply

Viability of foreverness

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