Post-Factual Stage of Dem Campaign

MontereyJack wrote:

You want professional grammarians' amicus briefs that show Scalia is full of it? Here ya go (this isn't the actual brief they filed, obviously, it's a recap of their argument that they wrote for a general audience).

http://www.english.illinois.edu/-people-/faculty/debaron/essays/guns.pdf

Here is the actual brief:
http://www.gurapossessky.com/news/parker/documents/07-290tsacProfessorsOfLinguistics.pdf



I'm much more partial to this one:
http://www.gurapossessky.com/news/parker/documents/07290bsacinternationalscholarsreprint.pdf


(But then I'm a bit biased on that question.)



I'll review the brief of the linguistics professors in a little while (and also their general audience version), and see if they got anything wrong.

If you believe in original intent, as the conservatives say they do, and if you base your decisions on what you think the original intent was, and if what you think is original intent is not in fact what the people who wrote the original meant, because the language has changed, as it has, then what the words meant in 1792 is actually probably more relevant than lawyers, whose view of what truth is is extraordinarily pliable, depending on who their client is.

C. The Constitution doesn't require a militia.

It says a well-regulated militia is necessary

Besides, we have a militia.

Law defines the National Guard as it.

Needs have changed, organizations have changed.

Oralloy wrote:

You've missed the fact that Wall Street owns Obama?

Actually it doesn't. Wall Street jointly exercises co-supervisory control over the Republican Party in alliance with Grover Norquist. Exept for James Inhofe. He's a wholly-owned syubsidiary of the oil industry. The Dems have somewhat more independence, and they'd damned well better exercise that soon, before Jamie Dimon and his inept ilk trash us again.

Yes, Obamacare originally was a beginner version of a single-payer system, with a government-run option for a Medicare-like system available to anyone of any age as an alternative to private insurance companies.

And, yes, the developed world does all use single-payer systems. There is a multiplicity of ways those systems are implemented, each country does it differently, but that's what they are

Oralloy, you're attempting to impose your own definition on how words were actually used for centuries, and you're flat wrong.

Hunting is not martial. Self-defense is not martial when it's individual. The words were never used that way. They were talking about armies and uniforms and massed volleys and charging at the enemy and amred conflicts between governmental units.

Sorry, you're wrong.

And we've refuted your nonhistorical fantasies a number of times, gunga.

.... It was the PRIVATE financial services industry which created the risky and opaque financial instruments like mortgage derivatives and credit default swaps. It was the PRIVATE financial industry which in a feeding frenzy started selling subprime mortgages to people they kKNEW were in no position to buy them, because they could then slice and dice the mortgages up into derivatives, which they marketed as very low risk, which they were not, to other PRIVATE buyers, ho then assumed the risk, while the original sellers took huge bonuses based on the dollar volume of the crap they sold. It was the PRIVATE financial industry which talked its shills, largely Republican, in Congress and regulatory agencies into lowering capital requirements and increasing the amount of leverage they could use, which let them run up huge debt, which couldn't be repaid and toppled the market like dominos.

...Two major Congressional Chairmen could have prevented this collapse; Representative Barney Frank (D), chairman of the House Financial Services Committee and Senator Christopher Dodd (D) Chairman of the Senate Banking Committee. Between these two committees, these men have absolute regulatory control over America’s financial systems.

These men with purpose eviscerated well established banking regulations for the short term partisan purpose of power and appeasement for a vocal segment of their constituency. In doing so, Messrs Frank and Dodd ruined the dreams and aspirations of millions of people they were to help. They did so in a reckless manner with complete disregard of America’s best interest. Messrs Frank and Dodd, in collaboration with Acorn forced lending institutions to accept alternative methods for evaluating high risk home buyers, and permitted Fannie and Freddie to accept high risk mortgages, and then fraudulently rate those mortgages as investment grade securities.

Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae are GSE’s, government sponsored enterprises, and were originally developed to act as a secondary market to buy mortgage loans from local banks, which in turn would give banks more capital to invest in additional mortgages. This program gave responsible low income Americans with solid jobs and good credit, a hand up. Because of 1995 Clinton era legislative changes to the original Community Reinvestment Act (CRA), the definition of a subprime borrower was re-classified.

In very simple terms, Messrs Frank and Dodd made an abomination of the noble goal of increasing home ownership and embraced the “socialist concept of entitlement,” and embarked upon a program to give mortgages to low income high risk borrowers who have an almost certain probability of default. Under accepted Banking principles; should an individual with a poor credit history, a "sub-prime" borrower, want to obtain a mortgage, that individual would be required to have a 20-30% down payment and pay a much higher rate than a "prime" borrower. With the full approval and encouragement of Messrs. Frank and Dodd, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac developed products that allowed the same "sub-prime" borrower to qualify for a mortgage with a much lower down payment and interest rate. Lenders felt comfortable giving mortgage loans to these borrowers with poor credit history because the ratings agencies, Standard & Poor's, Moody's and Fitch's gave these mortgages the same ratings as U.S. Treasury notes, backed by the full faith and credit of the US government.

To further their ideology, Messrs Frank and Dodd permitted Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to purchase Alt A mortgages for low income borrowers. These high risk loans included; "No Income verification, no down payment, No employment verification, no asset or financial statement verification”. Just what part of no down payment, and no income verification did Messrs Frank and Dodd not comprehend as extremely risky?

Other examples of high risk loans include interest-only adjustable-rate mortgages (ARM), which allows the homeowner to pay just the interest (not principal) during an initial period. Or “a payment option” loan, in which the homeowner can pay a variable amount, but any interest not paid is added to the principal. Further, an estimated one-third of ARM’s originated between 2004 and 2006 had "teaser" rates below 4%, which then increased significantly after some initial period, as much as doubling the monthly payment.

With full knowledge of and approval by messrs Frank and Dodd, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac bundled these high risk loans into mortgage back securities (MBS) and sold them as low risk, high quality investment grade products to American financial institutions such as Bear Stearns, Merrill lynch, Lehman Brothers, AIG, and others. These institutions repackaged these MBS’s into a variety of Collateralized Debt Obligations and other investment instruments which were sold to financial institutions worldwide. Because these products were purchased as low risk fully collateralized obligations, they were leveraged thru derivatives, and used as collateral for other financial instruments.

These fraudulently rated securities have now infected the entire world economy, and caused several European banks to fail. America's financial banking system use to be the gold standard for the world. In acts of egregious malfeasance, Messrs Frank, Dodd, in collaboration with Franklin Raines, the disgraced CEO Fannie Mae, and Acorn, along with like-minded members of their political party, tarnished America’s reputation throughout the world and brought the U.S. banking system, and economy to the precipice of disaster.

Messrs Frank and Dodd, with support of Democrats and Acorn drafted, passed and enforced draconian legislation which threatened lending institutions with punitive fines, class action suites, and racial quotas, which were enforced with the unlimited resources of the U.S. Government. In addition, this legislation also gave Acorn, and like organizations, the authority to stop bank mergers and otherwise interfere with the daily business operations of financial lending institutions. Many banks had to pay Acorn tens of millions of dollars, in what could arguably be called extortion money; the cost of which was passed through to their customers. Additionally ACORN, who had in the past employed Senator Obama during his Chicago Community Activist days, engaged in on site intimidation of bank customers and employees, through mass protests and invasion of facilities, with Countrywide Mortgage being one of many targets.

Faced with these tactics, many lending institutions made a business decision to develop business models that appeased Messrs Frank, Dodd, and ACORN. Lending institutions became mortgage originators and service providers, not underwriters, and processed high risk loans in mass through a 30 second Freddie/Fannie automated approval system. Country Wide Mortgage ingratiated themselves with Messrs Frank and Dodd, and became the largest seller of mortgages to these GSE’s. Countrywide Mortgage and other lenders, made their money by taking the spread between the actual mortgage amount and the discounted sale price on TRILLIONS of dollars worth of mortgages sold to Fannie and Freddie.

Messrs Frank and Dodd are educated men and have a substantial working knowledge of banking and finance. Both men failed in their fiduciary responsibility to the American people by knowingly permitting high risk mortgages to enter the American and world financial system through Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

Representative Frank (D) and Senator Dodd (D) received substantial political PAC money from Countrywide, Bank of America, (now the owner of Countrywide), Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Both Barney Frank and Chris Dodd were on the “Friends of Angelo list;” that is Angelo Molizo, president of Countrywide. Senator Dodd received and took “Special Rate” personal loans from Countrywide for his own use. Dodd’s reason for accepting multiple discount mortgages, “He thought the mortgages were just a courtesy”. While Senator Chris Dodd (D), with over 30 years of senatorial experience, was the largest recipient of Fannie and Freddie Pac money, Senator Obama (D), a junior senator, was the second largest recipient of Fannie and Freddie Pac money. Why?

Messrs Frank and Dodd received many warnings of impending financial disaster. As early as 1998, a study done by economists Professor Day and Professor Liebowitz, of the University of Texas, concluded that a reduction in mortgage underwriting standards would lead to a substantial foreclosure crisis. From 2001 through 2006, Greg Manwik chairman of President Bush’s council of economic advisors, Allan Greenspan, Chairman of the Federal Reserve and Secretary of the Treasury, Snow, warned Messrs Frank and Dodd again that Freddie and Fannie were in trouble, and a threat the stability of the U.S. Economy.

In 2005, President Bush tried to get Fannie and Freddie reform legislation through Congress and in 2006, Senator John McCain(R) co-signed new reform legislation, which could have prevented this mortgage meltdown. Each time Messrs Frank and Dodd, with the solid support of the Democrats in congress, killed the legislation. Representative Barney Frank’s response was, “They are worried about the “tiny little matter of safety and soundness, rather than concern about housing.”

Ironically, it was Congressman Barney Frank (D) and Senator Christopher Dodd (D) who draft the initial bailout bill of 2008, and Senator McCain (R) had to suspend his presidential campaign to help clean up this mess. Indeed, Congressman Frank (D), Senator Dodd(D), Senator McConnell(R), Senator Reid(D), and Speaker Nancy Pelosi(D) had an agreement in principle, with the white house and Secretary Paulson; as Senator McCain(R) arrived in Washington September 25th . That agreement was laden with hundreds of billions of dollars of pork, along with a provision which would have given Acorn and similar groups the first 20% of any profits made by the government on the resale of purchased assets, before any money would have been repaid to the U.S. treasury. That evening in a very contentious meeting with President Bush, the Democrats were disappointed and furious that House Minority leader Rep John Boehner (R), with Senator John McCain(R) Seating next to him, demanded that the pork and Acorn money be stripped out before the House Republicans house would sign on. 95 Democrats with 133 Republicans killed the bailout bill on it first pass. With the senate’s revision, which included an extension of taxpayer protection from the AMT and increase FDIC deposit insurance, the bill passed both chambers.

There were and are much better ways to expand home ownership, other than financially ruining this country, and dragging the world financial markets down with it. The simple fact is, that with the combined power of both the House Finance Committee, and the Senate Banking Committee, Messrs Frank and Dodd could have utilize the regulatory authority and oversight power they and their committees have and interceded on the bond ratings of the mortgages, and imposed sane mortgage underwriting standards on Fannie and Freddie. Better yet, they could have left the industry alone and let the banks continue the pre 1995 practice of prudent lending. Instead these men made every working American a de-facto co-signer for America’s low income mortgages; a fact that Americans are now painfully aware of.

Securities and Exchange Chairman Cox should have recognized the weakness of these securities, but with the corrupt political power and influence Fannie and Freddie had on Messrs Frank and Dodd. It is doubtful he could have on his own downgraded the bond rating of the bundled securities Fannie and Freddie were selling to Wall Street.

America has now had it first taste of unbridled socialist economics, where government interferes with sound free market banking principals, for social engineering. Where men give according to their means and receive according to their needs. This philosophy has always failed. Now millions of Americans, and men and women around the world will suffer for Rep Frank (D) and Senator Dodd’s (D) selfish, self serving motives of putting party first and buying votes. We also have ACORN engaging in mass voter fraud registrations.

Whether you are a Democrat or Republican, you did not sign on for congressional malfeasance, or abuse of the democratic process. Americans should be mad as hell, and we have 700 billion reasons why. We should not ask, but demand that our Representatives and Senators hold Rep Barney Frank(D) and Senator Dodd(D) accountable for the damage they have done to this country, and we should carefully evaluate which presidential team can best excise this corruption from America’s political system.

You're the one in fantasy land David, always have been.

Your vision of an armed society is a dystopia starting to happen,
and you just don't realize it.

As Johnson was regarded by his contemporaries as head, shoulders, and torso
above anything anyone else produced, and as he in fact defines "arms", this is his entire definition:
1. Weapons of offence or armour of defence. Pop.
2. A state of hostility. Shakespear
3. War in general. Dryden
4. Action: the act of taking arms. Milton.
5. The ensigns armorial of a family.

You will note these all pertain to martial matters
(with of course the exception of 5, which is again heraldry and irrelevant to the 2nd amendment)

Self defense is a martial matter.

"Arms" referred to MILITARY matters when it was used then.

For comparison, here's the Oxford Universal English Dictionary on Historical Principles, Oxford University Press, 1937, now regarded as the standard of dictionaries. Before the revisionists started creating their own non-historical fantasies about terms

Arms 1., pl. Things used in fighting....2.Instruments of offense used in war; weapons
Stand of arms: a complete set for one soldier
Man of arms, later man-at-arms: one practiced in war; a fully-armed knight.

and finally (emphasis theirs):
To bear arms:To serve as a soldier.

Now that's the historic usage of the term, as defined by the experts in the English language, based on historical references. Which is consistent with Johnson's contemporaneous definition of the term from the constititutional period.

Self defense falls under "fighting".

Arms and bearing arms referred to military contexts, not to hunting or personal use.

Which is why the second amendment means what it clearly says it means.
It's talking about militias and arms for militias, and that's it.

Specifically, it says that the government is required to have a militia, and militiamen have the right to own advanced military weaponry, and the right to keep it in their own homes.

Since you are so gung ho on defending that meaning, how come you never have any complaints over the government violating it???

It's NOT talking about personal use of guns for self-defense.
It's NOT talking about guns for hunting.
It's silent about any supposed rights for those uses.

As Heller continues to throw civil society in the crapper, hopefully they'll reallize their mistake with it sooner.

Total bullshit. Private financial institutions wrote bad mortgages which they sold to other private financial institutions and badly overlevberaged themselves. The government never entered into those transactions, and never forced them to take place....