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Mel Gibsons (The Passion)

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2004 03:51 pm
lolli wrote:
Guys, guys, guys,
I agree, this doesn't have to be a drawn out, knock down battle.


Okay, no battles, Lolli.


Quote:
I am not posting these things to shove my beliefs down your throat, Frank. I understand the appeal of atheism. It makes sense.



Well, we disagree there. I find no appeal in atheism at all -- and quite honestly, it doesn't make sense to me.

(I know, respect, and love many theists and atheists -- regardless of the fact that I think their perspecive is foggy.)



Quote:
But Frank, In my life, I have asked those questions. I have recieved the answers.


Well, I suspect you are getting the answers you are demanding. I think theism and atheism are delusions.

But, do whatever you will with your beliefs. I prefer not to have beliefs.



Quote:
It is impossible to believe in God without faith. I have recieved my faith through hearing. You're not going to like this, but it was from the Bible. I have struggled with doubt at times...


Well, there is your problem.

You "struggle" with doubt.

Don't struggle with it.

Accept it.

We don't know if there is a God.

Why not simply say that? (I suspect it is because you are afraid of what the god you think exists would do to you if you doubted!)



Quote:
...but I know that my faith is not based on emotions.


I don't think you do KNOW that -- and I would bet huge sums that your "faith" is based almost entirely on emotions (and fears).




I truly wish I could share that with you in a meaningful way, Lolli. I would love to see you free and unafraid.


In any case, peace to you.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2004 05:29 pm
Just saw the film this after-noon
Positivas:
Monica Belluci est pulchritudinae est!!!! Razz
Beautiful composition of shots.
Great use of colour.
Good score.
John the Beloved was a cutie...Yeshua had good taste in male lovers!!! Razz
They got the Veronica/Mandylion in there. Very Happy
Latin with an Italian accent...probably how the Vulgar Latin sounded.
I got to hear Aramaic!!! And I could decipher most of it. Yaaayyy!!!!
Loved the "Pieta" at the deposition!!!
Good portrayal of the "agony in the garden/" I have always though this is where the Christos is most approachable by the reader.
I liked the presentation of the Shaitan as a beautiful androgyne. Since it is supposed to be a fallen aggelos it makes a wonderful amount of sense (mental note: Might Annie Lennox be the anti-christ?).Shocked
The shots of the arma christi during the deposition.

Mediocritas
The bit with Judas and the kids reminds me of the horror stories my friend who teaches fourth grade frequently relates! Smile
Pilate was not a wuss. This aspect was likely an attempt to make the gospels more acceptable to a Roman audience. I wish that Gibson had not followed this balderdash.
The "monsterization" of the centurions. Cheap and predictable, and not at all subtle. This was elementary school logic and detracted from the filmmaking.
The grotesqueness of all of the Jewish charachters.
The "wound suit" was horribly done, and looked too, too fake.
the falls were overdone. By the third one someone in the audience made the "falling whistling sound," and many laughed.
By the time the Christos had his cross tipped over I thought, "oh, come on!
this is silly!"
Costuming, etc.. were horribly historically inaccurate, but certainly on a par with most hollywood productions set in antiquity (i.e..: Gladiator).
The "action hero ending, with the view through the stigmata. Rolling Eyes

I liked it, but I am approaching it from a slightly different perspective than many. I found the identification of the Magdalen as the woman taken in adultery interesting. Usually she is identified as an amalgamation of Mary of Bethany, the woman cured of seven devils, and the woman with the heavy menstrual period. identifying her with the woman taken in adultery certainly supports the magdalena Meretirces idea popular during the time of Katarina Emmerich (whose "visions" Gibson based the film on).

I also found it interesting from the point of attempting to understand the later medieval meditations on the passion, and particularly the emphasis on blood imagery (see Ross, The Grief of God: Images of the Suffering Jesus in Later Medieval England, (Oxford, 1989) and Rubin, Corpus Christi: Eucharistic Devotion in the High Middle Ages, (Oxford, 1987-ish, or thereabouts) ).

I was also stunned by the people in the audience "amen-ing" and "yessing" to themselves as they saw the film, As well as weeping conspicuously at parts. Some aging frat boy type accosted me as I left the theatre over "whether I was a 'krischin" (sic) and over the fact I have a button on my satchel with the face of Bush with a no-bozos symbol. I ignored him.
0 Replies
 
anton bonnier
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2004 07:07 pm
Anton,
Try reading some history that isn't in your "from the beginning of American civilization" history books. It is called "HIS- STORY!" history!!![/quote]

Lolli.
Thanks for your lesson in history.... HIS.. posseessive adj, of he. STORY.. legens or traditions, narrative or tale.
For your information I'm not an American, so I don't know a lot of your " history " However, if you are so impressed with the hollywood version of a Historical myth, it still dose not make it true, ( accept, perhaps to the believers, or young open minds ) any more than all the other Hollywood true storys from " history " .

By the way, a 'Lolli' in my country is a confection ( sweet or pastry ) from this do we assume you are very sweet?
0 Replies
 
lolli
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2004 07:26 pm
Anton,
I did come across a bit un-sweet!!! My apologies!
Anyway, I hope you find the truth!

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him, shall not perish but have everlasting life."
John 3:16

bye ya'll
God bless
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2004 08:41 pm
Actually, the "History=his story" is nonsense. "Historia" is a latin word, and has nothing to do with maleness. The Latin root for male is "vir."
0 Replies
 
SCoates
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2004 08:46 pm
Like, virility, viking, and vitamins. All male things.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2004 08:53 pm
SCoates wrote:
Like, virility, viking, and vitamins. All male things.

Viking: Old Low Norse wikung, "traveller."
Vitamin: Latin root vitam, "Life," ( curriculim vitae, vitality, vie (fr.), via (it., sp.),viva (it., sp.)
0 Replies
 
SCoates
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2004 09:00 pm
Just for the record, I was kidding. But impressive display of knowledge, Hobitbob.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2004 09:02 pm
I'm a grad student, "useless knowledge" is my middle name (well, one of them, along with "this is due when?," "that cost's how much?", and "of course I'll call you!"). Very Happy
0 Replies
 
anton bonnier
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2004 10:09 pm
lolli wrote:
Anton,
I did come across a bit un-sweet!!! My apologies!
Anyway, I hope you find the truth!

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him, shall not perish but have everlasting life."
John 3:16

bye ya'll
God bless


Lolli.
Thank you for your mythical quote and blessing... unfortunatly at my age everlasting life is the last thing my body and I require.
As for finding the truth, I feel it to be a hopeless task, I have been researching where the Christian religion started, via the internet ( my only source ) and why, so far all I have been able to determine, is... That it was accidental, and seems to be taken from myths. What I fail to understand is how a adult person can believe and worship anything, with out first asserting where it came from and if it is true. Anton.
0 Replies
 
yeahman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Feb, 2004 01:53 am
Frank Apisa wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
Nope. I don't know the answers either. The difference is that I am not insulting others beliefs or trying to forward my own.
You are.


No I'm not. I am using an Internet forum to discuss my perspective -- and to challenge other perspectives.

Frank Apisa wrote:
Jesus had a message -- a part of which can appeal even to agnostics and atheists as is does to you folks who think he was god.

That is the significant element of his life.

This other stuff is bullshit.
0 Replies
 
yeahman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Feb, 2004 01:59 am
Re: Mel's Movie
Frank Apisa wrote:
Dono wrote:
Micah, I saw it and thought it was awesome. I've never seen the Passion presented in such a truthful way.



And how would you know that it was presented in a truthful way?

Where you there?

Dono said "truthful" not "historically accurate." Truths can be depicted through fiction.
0 Replies
 
Dono
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Feb, 2004 02:00 am
McGentrix wrote:
Nope. I don't know the answers either. The difference is that I am not insulting others beliefs or trying to forward my own.

You are.


Here! Here! McGentrix, I nominate you as our spokesperson!!! You and Lolli and Micah are handling allof this bs very well!!! It's easy to see Frank's got serious problems but I'm concerned hobitbob needs medication. LOL!!!!
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Feb, 2004 02:34 am
Dono, I'm curious...how do you reconcile hateful comments like the one above with "Christianity?" Its comments like these that make me question the beliefs of most self-professed "Christians." You certainly don't set much of an example.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Feb, 2004 05:44 am
Re: Mel's Movie
ye110man wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
Dono wrote:
Micah, I saw it and thought it was awesome. I've never seen the Passion presented in such a truthful way.



And how would you know that it was presented in a truthful way?

Where you there?

Dono said "truthful" not "historically accurate." Truths can be depicted through fiction.



That still doesn't answer the question.


How does he know it was truthful?
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Feb, 2004 06:05 am
I don't intend to see this film, nor do I watch holocaust flms because I think we need to make a stand against the commercialism which rides on the back of humanity's base instincts.

Historical "truth" is another matter and is utilised for the purposes of the living. There is of course no comparison between the amount of conventional evidence for the holocaust compared with the Jesus story, but that is irrelevant to the issue that the latter and its social consequences of promoting anti-semitism is clearly a factor in the former. For this reason alone I feel justified in voting with my feet.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Feb, 2004 09:07 am
fresco wrote:
I don't intend to see this film, nor do I watch holocaust flms because I think we need to make a stand against the commercialism which rides on the back of humanity's base instincts.

Historical "truth" is another matter and is utilised for the purposes of the living. There is of course no comparison between the amount of conventional evidence for the holocaust compared with the Jesus story, but that is irrelevant to the issue that the latter and its social consequences of promoting anti-semitism is clearly a factor in the former. For this reason alone I feel justified in voting with my feet.



I don't get enough opportunities to agree with Fresco these days, so allow me to take advantage of this one to say...

...right on, Fresco.

Well said!
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Feb, 2004 12:01 pm
truth
...right on, Frank
Well said!
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Feb, 2004 03:51 pm
I've got the ideal "medication" for all the Gospel According to St. Gibson movie -- have them sit down and be forced to watch it over and over until they've had enough. Seems like ideal torture for those who can't tell a mediocre movie when they see one. It looks good (except for the pornographic violence) but it has no depth to its convictions other than exposition. A Classics Illustrated Bible story stained with a lot of blood.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Feb, 2004 03:55 pm
But for many of thst contingent, the blood probably has little effect. They enjoy cruelty. It makes them feel "righteous" and "holy" and "filled with the spirit" and other sorts of stupid expressions used to justify violent behaviour in the name of god.
0 Replies
 
 

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