40
   

Is free-will an illusion?

 
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2012 10:43 am
@dalehileman,
Exactly !
imans
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2012 10:45 am
@dalehileman,
u r intelligent bravo for meanin to relate with truth since the end is to of course

especially when absolutes value is first but also is only freedom, imagine all those absolute of absolute freedom what that mean from first so always more compared to ur evil gods randomness farts
imans
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2012 10:50 am
@imans,
u have all the intersts to mean relation with truth u hate while it is impossible reach knowin that truth hate u before u moved seein clearly what kind of free alone steady u r

but u believe in love dont u, maybe it is meant there as ur exclusive way left to seek convincin truth how ur love is beyond its endless hate to u
mayb it will throw u some sugar in the hell it mean to lock u down inn
0 Replies
 
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2012 11:01 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Why thank you again Fil, I was beginning to doubt my reason

A little support is welcome in this otherwise gestaltist infinitude of dysphoric thrall and insensate persiflage

Quote:
but u believe in love dont u
Do you mean me
Yes I guess so
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2012 11:02 am
@dalehileman,
That's because "humanoids" can create "things" that expands our choices. Sending a craft to Mars is but one of them.
0 Replies
 
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2012 11:03 am
@imans,
Why thank you Imans, if yours was meant also to be encouraging

If no trouble you might reveal something about yourself; age, sex, nationality, ed., work, motives, etc etc

Quote:
but u believe in love dont u
Do you mean me
Yes I guess so
0 Replies
 
ughaibu
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2012 12:09 pm
@raprap,
raprap wrote:
I do recognize that the rules of physics govern everything from economics to atoms.
Like **** they do. Show me the proof that economics is governed by "the rules of physics".
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2012 12:16 pm
@ughaibu,
I agree; economics uses math, but it's more an art than it is science. That's the reason why even so-called expert economists disagree on issues of economics.
0 Replies
 
ughaibu
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2012 12:24 pm
@dalehileman,
dalehileman wrote:
the idea of Freewill is such a vague concept
Bullshit! An agent has free will on any occasion on which that agent makes and enacts a conscious choice from amongst realisable alternatives. The exact meaning of constituent terms in this definition has been explicated, on this site, and for the most part, on this thread.
dalehileman wrote:
the apparent deterministic leanings of the physical sciences
1) science is metaphysically neutral
2) determinism is a metaphysical thesis
3) science is the business of generating, a class of, predictions
4) predictions are generated by deterministic models
5) restriction to a species of model has no ontological implications.
dalehileman wrote:
I still maintain the entire discussion is a purely semantic issue
Go on then, what's your argument for this ridiculous contention?
Unless you show signs of understanding and taking in the content of my replies to you, I will assume that you're another case of terminal denialism.
imans
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2012 12:38 pm
it is never one while two is enough for truth

superiority is the only truth that also can exist

only truth, bc superiority is a kind of free way there is no reason need to mean better a bit, better is always possible but also not the thing nor conditionnin anything, better is free from present, but it become the present truth bc it is the only value in objective terms
while truth by definition cant b but smthg really existin as a value still so it become a reason of a lot of free relatives to or objective free relativism

that also can exist, bc if superiority is constant then objects value is real while logically that object value would mean its own superior free way

the object superiority is first then the individual superior value second then objective values third

that is how and why individual freedom is always the limit of objective free existence, bc objective superiority is by truth limited by individual superiority being more superior value while also individual superiority is limited in truth by objective superior value
so superiority only exist, since there is no mirrors nor inventions but true else superior value that truth always bring out of nothing as present truth

which guarantee the constant march on superiority mods the linear ways



0 Replies
 
tomr
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2012 12:56 pm
Here is a link to the wikipedia page on algorithmically random sequences:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algorithmically_random_sequence

Under History section it says that the first suitable definition of a random sequence was developed in 1966. Since we are talking about random sequences this would be applicable to our discussion. So when Ughaibu says classical mathematics he is being extremely vague. The only definitions for a random sequence seem to be based on the theory of computation which is a field in both computer science and mathematics.

Under the section Three Equivalent Definitions three equivalent definitions are given for randomness that are very complicated. You would probably need the equivalent of a post-graduate degree in mathematics and/or degree in computer science to have the background to begin to say you fully understand these concepts. Once you start talking about measure theory and Lebesgue measures and integrals you are getting into very advanced stuff. I am not close to getting it and I am no math major but I have taken fairly advanced math courses (Three calculus courses and a differential equations course.). In general the more recent the invention of some branch or theorem in mathematics the more difficult it is to understand, because it is building on everything that comes before it.

Under the section Interpretations of the definitions there is a laymans definition of a random sequence that we could use which is:

The Kolmogorov complexity characterization conveys the intuition that a random sequence is incompressible: no prefix can be produced by a program much shorter than the prefix.

Which is essentially saying that the program must be as large as the sequence being generated for the sequence to be random. If it was not then the machine was deterministically producing values in the sequence and the program might be much shorter than that sequence.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2012 01:33 pm
@tomr,
Sounds like super-computer stuff; way beyond my level of comprehension. Mr. Green Drunk Drunk Drunk
ughaibu
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2012 01:42 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
Sounds like super-computer stuff; way beyond my level of comprehension.
Back to reality, almost all numbers are uncomputable. If we chose a number, by any means other than by computing it, then the probability of it being computable is zero.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2012 03:07 pm
@ughaibu,
I disagree. Here's a Wiki article on super computers.

Quote:
Supercomputers are used for highly calculation-intensive tasks such as problems including quantum physics, weather forecasting, climate research, oil and gas exploration, molecular modeling (computing the structures and properties of chemical compounds, biological macromolecules, polymers, and crystals), and physical simulations (such as simulation of airplanes in wind tunnels, simulation of the detonation of nuclear weapons, and research into nuclear fusion).
ughaibu
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2012 03:13 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
I disagree.
With what?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2012 03:28 pm
@ughaibu,
If you don't understand, I can't explain it to you.
ughaibu
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2012 03:36 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
If you don't understand, I can't explain it to you.
You must be ******* joking. You replied to a post of mine and said that you disagree. That which you ostensibly disagree with was authored by me! What the **** was it?
tomr
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2012 03:40 pm
@ughaibu,
Quote:
Back to reality, almost all numbers are uncomputable. If we chose a number, by any means other than by computing it, then the probability of it being computable is zero.


Okay you have given us a resource about Set Theory. It never references randomness, probability, or computability.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2012 03:52 pm
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2012 03:56 pm
@ughaibu,
I responded with,
Quote:
@ughaibu,
I disagree. Here's a Wiki article on super computers.

Quote:
Supercomputers are used for highly calculation-intensive tasks such as problems including quantum physics, weather forecasting, climate research, oil and gas exploration, molecular modeling (computing the structures and properties of chemical compounds, biological macromolecules, polymers, and crystals), and physical simulations (such as simulation of airplanes in wind tunnels, simulation of the detonation of nuclear weapons, and research into nuclear fusion).


It's in relatively simple English language. If you don't understand what it says, I can't explain it to you any further. capiche?
 

Related Topics

How can we be sure? - Discussion by Raishu-tensho
Proof of nonexistence of free will - Discussion by litewave
Destroy My Belief System, Please! - Discussion by Thomas
Star Wars in Philosophy. - Discussion by Logicus
Existence of Everything. - Discussion by Logicus
Is it better to be feared or loved? - Discussion by Black King
Paradigm shifts - Question by Cyracuz
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.04 seconds on 04/28/2024 at 08:10:59