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Religion - (Christianity) Please Help...!

 
 
Reply Sat 11 Aug, 2012 08:12 am
Okay. So I'm a Christian. I grew up in a Pentecostal church (my mother came from a apostolic church, but they kicked her out when she got pregnant with me[out of wedlock & 16]) so that's when we went to Mt. zion Church of deliverance, the pentecostal church. Okay. So they taught me that you have to believe Jesus died on the cross for your sins (to be saved) and in order to get to heaven you have to catch the holyghost & speak in tongue (for evidence) Isn't that one of the gifts of God? Along with interpretation of tongues & all the others? don't you only have to have one of God's gifts? I'm so confused. I've spoken in tongue only once, but I Think you have to constantly do it. But doesn't that one time counts? My grandmother goes to a baptist church and they don't speak in tongues. Why is that? I've been to one baptist church that speak in tongue. My mom recently got married and she switched churches (I didn't) but her husband goes to a baptist church, & they speak in tongues over there too. At my church, they don't allow praise dancing as well. What's wrong with praise dancing? Someone please help. I'm 15 & I'm discovering more and more things about religion as I get older, but it just doesn't make sense. I just want to go to heaven when I leave here. And I'm not doubting my self I'm just so confused. All replies are appreciated. Thank you =)
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Type: Discussion • Score: 21 • Views: 12,354 • Replies: 174

 
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Aug, 2012 08:39 am
Not all branches of the Christian religion support speaking in tongues, dancing etc. Some regard it as superstition. All, however, say that to be saved you have to accept Jesus as your saviour. If you can't accept the tongues part, find another church that agrees with you. The Episcopalians don't go for the weird stuff.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Aug, 2012 08:50 am
@BrianaMonique,
The Church you go to should make you happy. A good church is a good community, people who will accept you and support you as you are. You should feel like people care about you without judging.

I was part of a pentecostal church. I spoke in tongues (because I felt I had to). It is possible that other people where really experiencing something out of body. I was faking it to be part of the crowd and because I didn't want people to believe that I wasn't saved.

There are lots of people like you. They either fake it (to go along) or they go find a church that accepts them. In a church that believes people who don't speak in tongues are condemned to hell, you won't find much honesty from people.

If you can, you should find a church community that supports you and makes you feel happy.
0 Replies
 
mismi
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Aug, 2012 09:14 am
@BrianaMonique,
Hi BrianaMonique!

I have a basic understanding of the Pentecostal Church since my mother grew up in an Assembly of God. But I was raised Baptist and am now Presbyterian. What I have come to understand through the years is that tongues is simply an outward indication of feelings. Initially, tongues were given as a way to spread the gospel by those who did not have the same language as those they were speaking to. The gift is used mainly now for edification of the body of Christ -your church family in other words. BUT - in order to be a Christian you do not have to speak in tongues, even though this is supposedly a sign of having the Holy Spirit. It is not. The Holy Spirit, is a gift of conscience given to you when you believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross to give you life. You do not have to be baptized, you do not have to even go to church...the requirement is much simpler than many want to believe.

Romans 10:8-10
New International Version (NIV)

8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

As previously mentioned - finding a church that supports you in your own beliefs and finding fellowship with others is hugely important. If you are uncomfortable with the requirements of the church you attend, you most assuredly need to find one that is Bible based and that you feel comfortable with.

Blessings as you search!
0 Replies
 
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Aug, 2012 01:00 pm
I am of no fixed religion and have no leaning toward, but am well read and have a pentacostal minister as a best friend.
We deliberate daily on the inconsistencies thereof and contradictions therein....far too many to even touch upon here.
He is the most learned and devout christian there is imo, doesn't take literature for granted and will trace any aspect therein to its deepest root.
All he desires is fellowship with christ in heaven beyond this plane.

He fully understands that most of the bible is of man's design, that Mathew is a corrupt reconstruction of Mark and Judas neither betrayed christ or comitted suicide, and even that, as you have no doubt been led to believe, none of the gospel writers are authentic, yet, he manages to read between the lines, and knows that as long as he does the best he can to exist in accordance with his interpretation of requirements , he will achieve his goals. 'god willing' as he says.
The 'CHURCH' is not a building and is inside you. If you are faking 'tongues', etc, you are LYING and being dishonest will prevent heavenly admission according to the literature.

I suggest you find a community you feel comfortable with and read 'okj' for yourself.....thoroughly.
mismi
 
  2  
Reply Mon 13 Aug, 2012 07:06 am
@mark noble,
You are harsh Mark.

We all do the best we can with the understanding we have. We learn - hopefully grow. You are right that the "Church" is within one. The building has nothing to do with the body of Christ. The body being the people who believe. There are different beliefs...people do not interpret things the same way. So reading the Old King James - is interpreted so many different ways...thus the offspring of a ton of denominations.

BrianaMonique...if you read this again, please take away with it the understanding that God knows your heart. We all want to belong somewhere and feel valuable in that place. There is a church that will provide that for you. Do like Mark says and read the Bible. I like the English Standard Version because it is the best translation from the original. But - there are (as Mark and many non-believers will point out) mysteries there. Things that are difficult to understand. The basis of the New Testament is life in Christ - and that life is loving others well. (And no folks - I do not want to get into any of the arguments you love to debate on the other threads - this is strictly to give Brianna the instruction she is looking for).

Just know that in time you will find peace with what you read. Try not to let others make you defensive in your journey- or what you understand to be true. There is no defense required. Smile That will help tremendously. Love others - seek to serve in your community the best you can.
Read, Pray - Love. Very Happy Not always that simple...because growing causes pain and pain can cause confusion. Just surround yourself with those who will support you as you seek. God bless you and I hope you find a place you are content with soon.
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Aug, 2012 08:57 am
@BrianaMonique,
BrianaMonique wrote:
I'm 15 & I'm discovering more and more things about religion as I get older, but it just doesn't make sense.

When you say, "it doesn't make sense", do you mean that it is inconsistent across the various branches, or that it is inconsistent with physical reality and daily experience?
Krumple
 
  0  
Reply Mon 13 Aug, 2012 09:31 am
@BrianaMonique,
BrianaMonique wrote:

Okay. So I'm a Christian. I grew up in a Pentecostal church (my mother came from a apostolic church, but they kicked her out when she got pregnant with me[out of wedlock & 16]) so that's when we went to Mt. zion Church of deliverance, the pentecostal church. Okay. So they taught me that you have to believe Jesus died on the cross for your sins (to be saved) and in order to get to heaven you have to catch the holyghost & speak in tongue (for evidence) Isn't that one of the gifts of God? Along with interpretation of tongues & all the others? don't you only have to have one of God's gifts? I'm so confused. I've spoken in tongue only once, but I Think you have to constantly do it. But doesn't that one time counts? My grandmother goes to a baptist church and they don't speak in tongues. Why is that? I've been to one baptist church that speak in tongue. My mom recently got married and she switched churches (I didn't) but her husband goes to a baptist church, & they speak in tongues over there too. At my church, they don't allow praise dancing as well. What's wrong with praise dancing? Someone please help. I'm 15 & I'm discovering more and more things about religion as I get older, but it just doesn't make sense. I just want to go to heaven when I leave here. And I'm not doubting my self I'm just so confused. All replies are appreciated. Thank you =)


It is all nonsense and that is why people come up with so many rules. If a god actually cared about dancing or doing some activity then it is petty. Just the fact that your mother gets kicked out for getting pregnant just proves that christians really don't care about people. They are the furthest from empathy for humanity. Why anyone would want to follow such a negative world view always baffles me. They teach that every human is wicked by nature and not worthy of anything good. They shun anything that is positive in life if you are trying to enjoy it and expect pain or suffering to be a blessing. It truly is a mental plague.
Lustig Andrei
 
  2  
Reply Mon 13 Aug, 2012 04:50 pm
@rosborne979,
rosborne979 wrote:

BrianaMonique wrote:
I'm 15 & I'm discovering more and more things about religion as I get older, but it just doesn't make sense.

When you say, "it doesn't make sense", do you mean that it is inconsistent across the various branches, or that it is inconsistent with physical reality and daily experience?


That's a good and valid question. For me personally, religion qua religion makes no sense. But that doesn't mean I don't recognize its positive impact on a lot of individuals as well as certain cultural norms. So, the question remains as to what, specifically, Briana is talking about -- inconsistencies between religions or inconsistency of any religion with observable fact.

In either case, "speaking in tongues" is so minor a part of any Christian religion that most of the so-called "main-stream" ones -- R. Catholic, Episcopalean, Lutheran etc. etc. -- don't even recognize it as a valid measure of grace.
mismi
 
  4  
Reply Mon 13 Aug, 2012 07:45 pm
@Krumple,
Quote:

It is all nonsense and that is why people come up with so many rules. If a god actually cared about dancing or doing some activity then it is petty. Just the fact that your mother gets kicked out for getting pregnant just proves that christians really don't care about people. They are the furthest from empathy for humanity. Why anyone would want to follow such a negative world view always baffles me. They teach that every human is wicked by nature and not worthy of anything good. They shun anything that is positive in life if you are trying to enjoy it and expect pain or suffering to be a blessing. It truly is a mental plague.


K -
You can't lump all Christians into one group. Well I suppose you can - but I think that is unjust.

Some use religion - just as others use education and pedigree to distinguish themselves. It is often used to make them feel better about themselves by raising themselves and debasing others. That would be the reason for all of the rules. It's pharisaical. Anyone who would not love folks in spite of his or her failures and cast them out is obviously not seeing his or her own self clearly.

I have often wondered what name I can call myself that would distinguish myself from others who would call themselves Christians but not use the basis of their faith to love others well. Goodness knows I love to have fun, I love to dance, I love to drink and eat and laugh. Am I mean sometimes? Oh yeah. Am I judgmental? Unfortunately. I am absolutely imperfect and a cause for others to wonder about Christians. But - I do believe that there was someone who loved enough to sacrifice everything so that I would have hope. I do believe in the mysteries of the Bible. I do believe that when Jesus died he rose again. And I believe that there is more to this life than just living and dying. And yes, the Old Testament is tough. I do not understand the wars and killing that seem to go on even now. I will not debate it .

I am a lunatic in many peoples eyes - unreasonable and ridiculously illogical. An idiot.

And I am okay with it.

There are many that are like me - but we don't make it onto the TV because we are not controversial. We do not hate because of the ones who choose a different path than us. We do not believe in having to be right. Most of the arguing you see is because many times Christians feel they have to make others believe what they say is true. I do not believe that. If I believe that God is God and all powerful, then there is no reason for me to argue or to strongarm - or hate others because they do not believe the way I do. If you think I am wrong - I am okay with that too.

All of this to say - BrianaMonique must find her own way. I pray that she finds peace and a group who will love and accept her as she is. She is a precious child of God and well loved.

mismi
 
  2  
Reply Mon 13 Aug, 2012 07:50 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Quote:
In either case, "speaking in tongues" is so minor a part of any Christian religion that most of the so-called "main-stream" ones -- R. Catholic, Episcopalean, Lutheran etc. etc. -- don't even recognize it as a valid measure of grace.


It is a means of grace purposed mainly during the early Christian Church. It is strictly meant for self edification these days. It seems to be a welling of emotion. It is certainly not necessary for salvation in the Catholic or mainstream Churches of today. Though many of the "charismatic" or "pentacostal" churches do practice and advise that it is an outward sign of having received the Holy Spirit. That is not based on scripture though. At least in my interpretation of it. Which is the crux of it all. Such a divisive thing, interpretation. Smile

0 Replies
 
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Aug, 2012 01:52 am
@mismi,
mismi wrote:
But - I do believe that there was someone who loved enough to sacrifice everything so that I would have hope. I do believe in the mysteries of the Bible. I do believe that when Jesus died he rose again. And I believe that there is more to this life than just living and dying. And yes, the Old Testament is tough. I do not understand the wars and killing that seem to go on even now. I will not debate it .


It is so convoluted to think that a god would think it were necessary to kill a being just so it can forgive a trait that was built into the rest of the beings. There is no possible way that this is actually reality. If a god exists and this is it's method that I have to call into question this god's intellect. It seems so irrational to think that this is a method or solution. You honestly think that another being can suffer on your behalf? It is absurdity.

Not only that but why would you respect a god that would cause another to suffer just so it could forgive? You can't get any more wicked than that. Why you can't or refuse to see it as wicked, must call into question that perhaps you are just as wicked minded. That torturing another being for not believing is perfectly justifiable and reasonable to you. It is madness.
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Tue 14 Aug, 2012 02:37 am
I'm no christian, and do not subscribe to any of their beliefs. However, i'm not so dull-witted as to offer such a simplistic and self-serving a description of christian theology. Christians (most of them) believe in a triune god. The son is as much a part of god as the father and the spirit. So god was not torturing and killing some random, hapless victim. According to their theology, he was sacrificing an aspect of himself so as to take the burden of sin away from the world. Certainly it is reasonable to argue against that specific aspect of theology, or the general principle of theism. It is scurrilous and low, however, to accuase someone of being evil because they hold beliefs with which you don't agree, and of which you have no real conception--just a witless and self-serving caricature. As usual, you shoot your mouth off without knowing what the hell you're talking about.
Krumple
 
  0  
Reply Tue 14 Aug, 2012 02:41 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

As usual, you shoot your mouth off without knowing what the hell you're talking about.


What you don't understand about my argument is the principal. It does not matter what so ever who or what is being tortured. It is the fact that something need be tortured to begin with. Why is it necessary to nail itself to a cross and be whipped or stabbed in the abdomen to allow forgiveness to take place? Why is this act necessary? This is the convoluted aspect of it. You writing it off is typical because you don't empathize with humanity either. The fact that it is perfectly reasonable to you is just another example of that.
Setanta
 
  3  
Reply Tue 14 Aug, 2012 02:49 am
@Krumple,
I didn't say it was perfectly reasonable, and in fact prefaced my remarks with the caveat that i do not subscribe to the belief. You are an ill-bred, vicious son of a bitch who cannot refrain from libelling others if they disagree with you. You have absolutely no idea and no basis upon which to make allegations about my empathy for humanity.

All you are is a nasty little boy, who knows precrious little and thinks he knows it all.
Krumple
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 14 Aug, 2012 02:54 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

I didn't say it was perfectly reasonable, and in fact prefaced my remarks with the caveat that i do not subscribe to the belief. You are an ill-bred, vicious son of a bitch who cannot refrain from libelling others if they disagree with you. You have absolutely no idea and no basis upon which to make allegations about my empathy for humanity.

All you are is a nasty little boy, who knows precrious little and thinks he knows it all.


Funny how you are allowed to "libelling others" (as you put it) but no one else can? I mean if you are going to accuse someone of something why go about doing the very thing you are objecting to? Like a person who claims stabbing others is wrong yet you go ahead and stab someone. This is why I mock and criticize you because you can't even see how hypocritical you are being and the only way I can rationalize your behavior is to suggest that you are a moron. Which is true.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Aug, 2012 03:04 am
@Krumple,
Sauce for the goose, Bubba . . . if you bad-mouth me, i'll bad-mouth you in return. It's hilarious to see you accuse someone else of being a moron. I never see you argue anything but that it's an argument from ignorance.
Krumple
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 14 Aug, 2012 03:46 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Sauce for the goose, Bubba . . . if you bad-mouth me, i'll bad-mouth you in return.


You do realize it makes your argument moot?

Setanta wrote:

It's hilarious to see you accuse someone else of being a moron. I never see you argue anything but that it's an argument from ignorance.


Argument from ignorance? Since there is no other explanation for why you are a moron that I must assume that you are just a moron? Na, not an argument from ignorance at all. All the evidence supports the basis that you are a moron so no need to assume it.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Aug, 2012 06:45 am
@Krumple,
Telling you that you are foul-mouthed and abusive is not part of any argument, it's just an accurate observation. You can't even keep track of what's going on here, though. You made an argument about christian doctrine which was based on ignorance of that doctrine, based on a simplistic and completely false statement of that doctrine. That is just one more glaring example of your consistent use of arguments from ignorance.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Tue 14 Aug, 2012 06:52 am
@Setanta,
You may be a lot of things Setanta, but you're not a moron. despite our differences I actually think you're quite bright. Krumpelle (it's a she) is another matter, using her vernacular I would ask you the following. Are you crying fowl, and using her as an escape goat?

Like I said it's her vernacular not mine, so no corrections are necessary.
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