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136 Years Ago Today . . .

 
 
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2012 04:29 pm
136 years ago, on this date, James Butler Hickok, better known as "Wild Bill" Hickok, former government scout, former marshall of Abilene, Kansas, full-time gambler, womanizer and self-promoter, was sitting, his back to the entrance, at a poker game in a saloon in Deadwood, South Dakota (at the time, though, it was all called Dakota Territory). A drunk named Jack McCall walked in, carrying a revolver that looked like you couldn't hit the side of a barn with it. He shot and killed Hickok with a single shot to the back of the head. Hickok is reputed to have been holding a poker hand of two pair -- aces over eights. (Nobody seems to remember what the fifth card was.) That hand has, ever since, been called the Dead Man's Hand.

The story is that mcCall was too drunk to be able to mount a horse he had waiting at the hitchrack outside, so he ran (staggered??) down an alley on foot. He was apprehended by -- among other people -- Martha Canary, a.k.a. "Calamity Jane" who, it is said, had a letch for Hickok. If that allegation is true, there is no evidence, however, that the feeling was reciprocated in any way.

McCall was hanged, after a trial of sorts, some months later.

August 2, 1876.
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raprap
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2012 04:37 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Bill lived long enough to see Colorado become a state (136 years ago yesterday--August 1, 1876) and he outlived George Armstrong Custer by 36 days (June 26, 1876).

Rap
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2012 04:38 pm
Hickock is my favorite of the old west "gunslingers." I have yet to see a movie that seems to capture the man. I have waited many years for it, but have pretty much given up.
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2012 04:38 pm
@raprap,
Right you are. The Us Centennial year was an eventful one.
0 Replies
 
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2012 04:44 pm
@edgarblythe,
You're right, edgar. There hasn't been anything that comes even close to historical fact about Hickok. He was a blowhard, for one thing, a shameless self-promoter. I said in the OP that he was a womanizer. Some historians suspect that by the time of his death he was probably suffering from syphilis because -- as one of them put it -- "Hickok's women had more miles onthem than the Union Pacific Railroad." I recently read some speculation by a writer who has no actual evidence to support his theory that a sexually transmitted disease might have been causing Hickok some blindness in the form of diminnishing peripheral vision. (He could still see well enough straight ahead and hit, without fail, whatever he pointed his pistol at.) This, it is alleged, might be why he never caught sight of McCall. His diminishing vision would not have registered movement that was not directly in front of him.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Aug, 2012 12:16 pm
I can't even begin to guess who could play western parts today. The actors/actresses that played western parts in the past seemed to be very authentic for the part they were to play (Hollywood authentic). Is this a sign that something unnoticed has changed in man?
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Aug, 2012 01:19 pm
@edgarblythe,
Blowhard and self-promoter or not, Hickok was the real deal. Still, it might be worth your time to track down Elfego Baca. Baca was something else, even if you manage to strip away the myth.

chai2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Aug, 2012 01:40 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
When we vacationed in SD a couple of years ago, Deadwood was one of our favorite parts of the trip.

It's just one main street, very clean (now), with restaurants, casinos, shops. The people live up on the sides of the gulch Deadwood is located in. South of the main street is the cemetary where Hickok is buried.

Looking around I said "Do you realize how many millions of dollars this man has generated for this town, and how he as afforded all the people here a good life?"

If he knew, he'd be more surprised than anybody.
0 Replies
 
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Aug, 2012 03:04 pm
@roger,
Thumbs up on Elfego Baca, Roger. And let's not forget the original Western baddie of them all, Joaquin Murrieta, who made life interesting for the '49ers during the California Gold Rush.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Aug, 2012 03:30 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Merry once again serves up a warm serving of trite pablum.

Wouldn't it be more honest, Andrew, to note what was actually happening at that time?

Quote:

Finding facts about stolen land

Brian Ward reports on a UN investigation of conditions for Native Americans.

May 23, 2012


THE OPPRESSION of American Indians was the cornerstone of the conquest of North America. For its part, the U.S. government signed over 300 treaties with Native tribes and broke every single one of them. The U.S. stole sacred land and killed off nations--not only the people, but their culture and livelihood.

For the first time, the U.S. has allowed a United Nations fact-finding mission to determine the impact of the passage of the proposed Declaration of the Rights of Indigenous People.

The 12-day fact-finding mission was performed by James Anaya, a professor of human rights law and policy at the University of Arizona. This mission took Anaya all over Indian Country and up to Alaska to determine the experience of Natives in this country. He will be presenting his finding in September to U.N. Human Rights Council. Reflecting on his mission, Anaya said on Democracy Now!:

The indigenous peoples of this country--the Native Americans, American Indians, Alaskan Natives, Native Hawaiians--suffer from poverty, poor health conditions, lack of attainment of formal education, social ills, at rates that far exceed those of other segments of the American population.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

ONE OF the headline-catching recommendations from Anaya was that the U.S. government return some stolen land to Native tribe as a way forward toward reconciliation. One specific piece of land recommended is Mount Rushmore, which is located in the Black Hills National Park in South Dakota--historically sacred land for the Lakota (Sioux). This land was stolen after gold was found in the Black Hills, in violation of the Fort Laramie Treaty of 1868.

In 1980, the Supreme Court decided that the seizure of the Black Hills from the Lakota was illegal and stated that the U.S. needed to compensate the Lakota for the land. The Lakota refused the money, instead demanding their land back.

The findings of the UN mission are no surprise since the U.S. was founded on stolen land--along with stolen labor. The U.S. continued to expand westward in an effort to find new markets and new resources.

In 1871, the U.S. discontinued the treaty process with Native tribes. From this point, the policy of the U.S. government was to assimilate Indians into white society. Young Indians were forced to go to boarding schools, where they had to cut their hair and were forbidden from speaking their native tongue.

It wasn't until the passage of the Indian Reorganization Act of 1934 that Indians were given the right to vote, which makes them the last minority in this country to win the franchise. The same law allowed tribes to have democratically elected councils to govern their reservations. Though these councils were set up by the U.S. government, and often used by them, this was a step towards sovereignty.

...


http://socialistworker.org/2012/05/23/finding-facts-about-stolen-land
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Aug, 2012 03:39 pm
@JTT,
What does any of that have to do with the price of tea in Taiwan, JTT, and how does it show that I'm posting "trite pablum."
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Aug, 2012 03:56 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Your trite pablum just brought out more trite pablum, Andrew. It's like a bunch of Germans sitting around reminiscing about how great it was how the Nazis stole Jewish property. It's like a bunch of Japanese sitting around reminiscing about all the great discoveries that Unit 731 made.

What part of,

"For its part, the U.S. government signed over 300 treaties with Native tribes and broke every single one of them. The U.S. stole sacred land and killed off nations--not only the people, but their culture and livelihood"

did you not understand?

Why aren't you starting threads that describe these notable US historical events?

Deadwood shouldn't exist and neither should that abomination that desecrated that mountain on stolen land.
Lustig Andrei
 
  2  
Reply Fri 3 Aug, 2012 04:55 pm
@JTT,
I don't necessarily disagree with any of what you've said, JTT. However, it has nothing to do with the subject of the thread which was meant merely as a historical reminiscence. And nobody's reminiscing about "how great" anything was, only about what was. Why is everything with you a cause for moral indignation? This topic is not about morality and takes no moral position.

When I taught U.S. History, I would invariably present the so-called Westward expansion of the 19th Century from the point of view of the native peoples who got disinherited, displaced and disenfranchised by the relentless tide of white movement West and the absurdity of the "Manifest Destiny" doctrine. That, to me, was the only relevant way to learn about this aspect of our history. However, again, that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

Erich Maria Remarque, a staunch anti-Nazi German writer, wrote several books about Germans (including German soldiers) caught up in the madness of World War II (A Time to Love, a Time to Die; Arch of Triumph; others) without ever decsending to the level of being an anti-Nazi polemicist. The vivid description of a battle has nothing whatever to do with the politics of the people fighting that battle. A description of the death of a cult figure like Hickok has absolutely nothing to do with considerations of whether any white men should even have been in the Pa-Sa-Pa, which is what the Lakota call the Black Hills where Deadwood and other towns are located. (You, of course, have been known to refer to the Lakota s "Sioux", a name full of pejorative connotations given to them by French trappers.)

Once more, if you have something to say that has nothing to do with the topic at hand, why not start your own thread on the subject? I'll be glad to participate (with your kind permission). But quit ******* up my threads. Please.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Fri 3 Aug, 2012 06:22 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Quote:
Why is everything with you a cause for moral indignation?


A more salient question is,

Why aren't you, or anyone else, at all indignant about the serial war crimes that the US has committed over the centuries?

Quote:
When I taught U.S. History, I would invariably present the so-called Westward expansion of the 19th Century from the point of view of the native peoples who got disinherited, displaced and disenfranchised ...


Gee, not a single mention of genocide, Merry. Not a mention of the land that was stolen, despite treaties that were in place. Not a mention of the incredible travesty that is Mt Rushmore.

I wonder why that would be.

Quote:
Erich Maria Remarque, a staunch anti-Nazi German writer, wrote several books about Germans (including German soldiers) caught up in the madness of World War II (A Time to Love, a Time to Die; Arch of Triumph; others) without ever decsending to the level of being an anti-Nazi polemicist.


Maybe that's because there existed a substantial group of people who were ensuring that those who had committed these heinous war crimes were being held to account.

Can you point to a similar group who is ensuring that the numerous US war criminals are held to account? Can you point to other historians, other than you, of course, who are giving accurate accounts of the long history of US criminal behavior?

Quote:
(You, of course, have been known to refer to the Lakota s "Sioux", a name full of pejorative connotations given to them by French trappers.)


Your carefully crafted facade just fell to pieces, Andrew. My "reference" was to correct a spelling error. I must have missed the post where you jumped all over Setanta for this egregious slight.

Odd, isn't it, that the Alexis Nakota Sioux Nation don't seem to bothered by the name to reject it.

http://www.alexisnakotasioux.com/

Do you just make stuff up as you go along, Merry?

Quote:
But quit ******* up my threads. Please.


You're right. There's no need to discuss these issues when A2K has an even handed historian like you [not to mention Setanta] taking care of things.
0 Replies
 
Rickoshay75
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Aug, 2012 04:45 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

Hickock is my favorite of the old west "gunslingers." I have yet to see a movie that seems to capture the man. I have waited many years for it, but have pretty much given up.


Gary Cooper in the Plainsman (1936) did a pretty good job.
0 Replies
 
Rickoshay75
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Aug, 2012 05:08 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Lustig Andrei wrote:

You're right, edgar. There hasn't been anything that comes even close to historical fact about Hickok. He was a blowhard, for one thing, a shameless self-promoter.



Back in those days, other than Ned Buntlines books, there was no notoriety. He immortalized Buffalo Bill, Clamity Jane and many others, so why not Hickok?
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Aug, 2012 05:27 pm
@Rickoshay75,
Not long before his demise, Hickok was interviewed by Henry Morton Stanley, the British journalist who later gained fame in Africa by finding the missing Dr. Livingstone in search of the source of the Nile River. Asked by the hero-adoring Stanley how many men he had killed in his life, Hickok said, offhandedly, "Oh about 30 or so." Stanley actually took him seriously. It's on record that at the time he had killed, at the very least, two or three men, one of them his own deputy marshall in Abilelene, KS, whom he shot by accident.

But that was fairly typical of Hickok's bragadoccio. He considered himself the greatest gunfighter in the West. (In fairness, it must be admitted that he was a sharpshooter of great skill with a six-gun. He spent a year with Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show demonstrating his marksmanship to oo-ing and ah-ing audiences. He didn't like the regmentation of curtain-time, however, and left after one season.)

Ned Buntline went looking for people he could popularize and immortalize. Hitchcock was his own best press agent. (Again, in fairness, Buffalo Bill Cody ran him a very, very close second.)

BTW, Cody was in the neighborhood when Hickok sat at his final poker game. Buffalo Bill had volunteered his services to the Army in chasing down the "renegades" who had done in Custer and company at the Little Big Horn, leaving his theatrical troupe in Philadelphia where the U.S.entennial observance was in full swing. This, from all I can gather, was also a publicity stunt. The Army had no need of Cody's so-called "services" but it made all the late editions.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Mon 6 Aug, 2012 09:35 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Quote:
Buffalo Bill had volunteered his services to the Army in chasing down the "renegades" who had done in Custer and company at the Little Big Horn,


Merry the "historian".


Buffalo Bill had volunteered his services to the hired assassins in chasing down people who could no longer stand the perfidy of the US government and who had then done in Custer and company [a fitting end for a genocidal monster] at the Little Big Horn.

Quote:
Jerome A. Greene. "Washita." Chap. 8, p.169.
Ben Clack told Walter M. Camp: many of the squaws captured at Washita were used by the officers...Romero was put in charge of them and on the march Romero would send squaws around to the officers' tents every night. [Clark] says Custer picked out a fine looking one and had her in his tent every night."
This statement is more or less confirmed by Frederick Benteen, who in 1896 asserted that Custer selected Monahseetah/Meotzi from among the women prisoners and cohabited with her "during the winter and spring of 1868 and '69" until his wife arrived in the summer of 1869. Although Benteen's assertions regarding Custer are not always to be trusted, his statements nonetheless conform entirely to those of the reliable Ben Clark and thus cannot be ignored."

http://www.nativeamericannetroots.net/diary/242/custer-rape-genocide-happy-meals



See also,



http://www.dickshovel.com/was.html
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Aug, 2012 11:30 am
@Lustig Andrei,
Lustig Andrei wrote:
136 years ago, on this date, James Butler Hickok, better known as "Wild Bill" Hickok, former government scout, former marshall of Abilene, Kansas, full-time gambler, womanizer and self-promoter, was sitting, his back to the entrance, at a poker game in a saloon in Deadwood, South Dakota (at the time, though, it was all called Dakota Territory). A drunk named Jack McCall walked in, carrying a revolver that looked like you couldn't hit the side of a barn with it.
I wonder Y not; was it rusted?? Was the barrel bent out of shape ?



Lustig Andrei wrote:
He shot and killed Hickok with a single shot to the back of the head.
U r supposed to aim for the medulla oblongata to achieve a quick & final result.





Lustig Andrei wrote:
Hickok is reputed to have been holding a poker hand of two pair -- aces over eights.
(Nobody seems to remember what the fifth card was.)
Consensus favors the Queen of Diamonds.




Lustig Andrei wrote:
That hand has, ever since, been called the Dead Man's Hand.

The story is that mcCall was too drunk to be able to mount a horse he had waiting at the hitchrack outside, so he ran (staggered??) down an alley on foot. He was apprehended by -- among other people -- Martha Canary, a.k.a. "Calamity Jane" who, it is said, had a letch for Hickok. If that allegation is true, there is no evidence, however, that the feeling was reciprocated in any way.

McCall was hanged, after a trial of sorts, some months later.

August 2, 1876.
OK, go ahead n call me paranoid.
(ACTUALLY, I am aware that no one is even thinking of gunning for me), but at dinner,
I prefer to avoid the Wild Bill Hickok position at table, i.e. with my back toward the door.
The story was that Bill made it a point to avoid that position (an idiosyncrasy for which he was KNOWN)
for reasons of personal security, but on one occasion (his last occasion),
he arrived LATE for an appointment to play poker.

His friends had some fun, at his expense, by denying him
any vacancy at the poker table, except the position to which he was aversive,
where he sat for the rest of his life.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Tue 7 Aug, 2012 11:43 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Trust you, Dave, to focus on the inane. Y'all do this to avoid the truth.
0 Replies
 
 

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