Mental Decline & Dependency/Coping With Aging Loved Ones

Sometimes it is very hard to be patient, when one or both of the couple are hurting, either physically and/or emotionally. You should see me, when I am in my, "chicken little, the sky is falling" frame of mind.

It is not easy, but I find that keeping my sense of humor, fortified by a valium and a pain pill, often works wonders.

I always thought that Roger was a wonderful guy. Don't let him know
that I said it. It might swell his head!

<POP>

Hello (((Phoenix))) and MntDecDpndCopg crew

hmmmm... been thinking

Had a loooong looooooong conversation with my Mom's friend yesterday - she just turned 70 and has serious health problems - won't go into her medical stuff but she was asking me about one of the drugs I take - methotrexate - as she has been prescribed it. Anyhoo - the conversation took a turn - we spoke at length about the 'indignities' of getting old - well, actually, one doesn't have to be old to suffer the indignities.

My advice (if it's possible for a child in her eyes to give advice) - is that you have to come to terms with the inability to function as we used to. She is one of those "super folk" - ya know, the type who does everything for everyone, everyday. She has to start to put limitations on this now - her body is dictating it. The only way to do this, without having to learn the hard way - which... is how I imagine MrP is doing it because he WISHES to do the same things that he used to do.... is to change the pride boundaries.

It's the pride before the fall... somehow, if you can, you need to try and 'make him a little more selfish' rather than less proud - perhaps without him realising why you are doing this.

As I write, I know I'm not explaining myself very well.

So, trying again and will use my PaPa as an example. My PaPa did EVERYTHING... everything in a business, they owned an old peoples home here in Devon... he built the house they live in, he could turn his hand at anything building wise, electrical, plumbing, decorating - the whole shebang.

PaPa is 70+ now - he can't do the things he wants to, he's a perfectionist - he just built my brothers 100 ft dry stone wall - it's take him months... and months... and months... and soooo much pain - but he's got there - it's almost killed him but he's very proud of it!!!!

However, he won't stop when he needs to - his pride stops him.

When I moved here, he tried to help me with some things - what used to take him a day, would take a week ... or two. So, it's got to the stage where I will still ask for his help with some things because to take that away from him would make him feel awful - but, when something needs done that I know he can't do relatively easily or is going to give him grief, I need to pay someone to do it.

I don't tell my parents half the things that go wrong - because they would want to "fix it" - but I know that then makes them struggle after and then there is the whole "guilt" factor that starts up and causes further problems.

At 46, there are so many things I can't do - from opening tins (tho I do have gadgets for things like that) - to little things like getting on the floor to clean out the fireplace... and then not being able to get up. Of course, mine is not consistent - some good, some bad days.

I told my Mom's friend, she needs to think (what others may call) selfish now - she has to take times to nap, she has to teach herself to ask for help, she needs to get hubby to pick up the large sack of potatoes instead of her doing it, she needs to delegate - and not because she can't do these things - but because when she does these things, her quality of like is diminishing as her physical pain is too great

everyone suffers further then - the pain, the pride, the guilt... it all adds up

getting an 'old dog to learn new tricks is never easy - but she has to do this before her body completely stops. It's soooooo hard to do - it's the most difficult thing to do - it seems like you are "giving in"... but it's not giving in or giving up - it's allowing yourself to be able to do the other things - it may appear selfish if you are the one to make that decision - it's not!

If Mr P ends up hurting himself - he will be able to do far less - of course, I know you know this... so perhaps, when something needs doing that you know is going to take it's toll on him - go ahead and call someone in to help - he may not like it too much to start with... but better now and a very small knock to the pride... than later when the knock to the pride is also a physical knock to the pride that will make life a lot harder for you both and the guilt that will reign.... and it will, the guilt will be there and that erodes relationships.

As you said, where you live is an +55 environment - so I'm thinking there must be a lot of folk there in the same or similar position to yourselves. Is there a community centre there where there are noticeboards which have advertisers on for "handy man" etc..? If not, (and obviously I don't know what kind of community you live in) - but if not, is it possible to organise a community meeting to get a list of workmen (plumbers/electricians/garden work/computers/window cleaners /oddjob etc etc) who have been recommended by other residents (being that word of mouth is the best form of advertising) - this list could then be distributed to many of the residents and many folk could benefit from this - everyone looking after one another and looking out for one another. Also, the workforce would then be more reliable if their business is coming from recommendations / if they got more work (and there must be plenty of folk looking for work) then their prices would be competitive - the more work they have the more likely there prices would be more reasonable.

As I say, the list can be distributed to the whole community and you could get community cohesion too.

(In the UK we have an Age Concern charity - they, and the local GPs etc have lists of workpeople who are registered with them to do jobs for elderly, disabled etc - they are all recommended workers and checked and charges are monitored)


so... that was my very long winded (as usual ) thought.



One final thought, because I know this will come across as "don't stop the old folk from doing stuff".... well, to clarify - I'm not elderly but my body can be... there is fine line between mental wellbeing and physical wellbeing - only one person seems to truly understand me about this and encourages me constantly to click because they know what make me "well" even when I'm sick - there are certain things you have to do to ensure your mental wellbeing remains intact - if you have mental wellbeing your physical wellbeing automatically becomes more tolerable...

no matter how ill I get or how much it hurts - if I have my camera and I can click - then my mental wellbeing is met - it may take me out and collapse me, it may hurt like hell the next day - but it's a good pain / worthwhile pain (as opposed to simply pain that I would have even if I weren't doing it - degrees of pain) - if I can do that and traipse thru woods and yomp the hills - even tho it may take me out for a week - it is so worth it. If I have to stop the things that make me 'me', that let me 'breathe' - then I would have no life. Yep, I may less pain caused by physical symptoms - but I wouldn't be living. When my body has physically had enough, it takes the decision out of my hands and collapses - I accept that - I let it recover - then go off and do again.

So, whether it's Mr P or my PaPa or my Mom's friend... or me or you - one has to do some things or enough things to make them feel as tho they are 'living' and not exisiting or waiting to die. It's hard and frustrating for people on the outside to watch - it's hard for you to see Mr P do some things - it's hard for me to watch my PaPa struggle - and even harder for my parents to watch me struggle - and it can be infuriating too... and the frustration can be immense for both parties - but the balance has to be found... both by you and Mr P.

If you can think of it in those terms... maybe that may help come to terms with his need to do things and then your need to call someone in to do the "big" jobs or your understanding there are some things that you just have to let him do, even when it's hard to watch.

I really don't know if that makes sense - but... I never was one for a few words or explaining myself well

Take care (((Phoenix)))





thinking of y'all




Swimpy - I hope things are OK with you and yours and y'all ar coming to terms with your loss - that happy memory with the hospice nurse phoncall is class - a nice memory in the most difficult of circumstances. x



Lil'K - as I've been typing this ramble - this information came on the news and starts in the UK today re dementia

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12662939

and this is page is very interesting

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11741597

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/01/110118101521.htm


not sure if you can get iplayer Stateside, but there is this also - dementia info for carers

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/p00dy3zc/Health_Check_28_02_2011

Izzie- Much thanks for the long, thoughtful post. There is no problem here about getting help. Our Community Association keeps a book with lists of all kinds of helpers....plumbers, decorators, handymen, etc. If someone has a problem with a worker, it can be reported and noted in the book. Over here, no worker wants to get on the C.A.'s sh-t list.

The problem is that Mr. P. has always been so independent, and a dyed in the wool do-it-yourselfer. For instance, let's take income taxes (you should pardon the expression). Ours are a bit complicated, and Mr. P. has always done them himself.

Once, when I was doing my mom's tax, I showed him Turbo Tax. He refused to even consider using it, and said that the program did not have everything that he needed. BTW, although he is a whiz with electronics, (he recently installed two crossovers in our hi-fi speaker system) he knows practically nothing about computers, and does not care to learn...he can just about surf the net.

Anyhow, it started about three years ago, when we ran to the post office a few minutes before midnight on April 15 to file our taxes. Now we don't even bother to rush.
He just files for an extension.

The problem with the taxes, is that he is taking a lot of time with them, time that would be better spent enjoying ourselves.

I'm visiting now more than three years my aunt on the "closed" ward in the senior's residence.

I must admit that due to this and mother's staying (at a different ward) in that residence, due to the time, we've been taking care of them and last but not least due to my professional knowledge I'm a bit educated about all these problems.

But it is still - nearly always - amazing to watch relatives in the ward during the first days .... and then, after those few days of über-love, not to see them again until a birthday or Christmas.

And it's even more amazing, how little even relatively well-educated people know about dementia and how to 'handle' persons who suffer from it.

Walter- One of the things that come up over and over as a facilitator in the Caregiver's Group is how to take the car keys away from a person when they are no longer able to drive. It is especially difficult when the person is a male. For many men, driving equals power, control, and manliness, and most men are loath to relinquish that power.

Ah, well - additionally, man can only do one thing at one time while females can do at least three simultaneously .... and all of them correctly.


Ooops - off topic

Walter- I am glad that you said that, rather than me!

How good to see you, Izzie. You and Phoenix are two of the most helpful on this topic, probably because you both have lived through it.

Male pride can be a problem, understandable, but sometimes it causes regression rather than maintaining an image. And for what? Do real friends care that you are terribly ill and cannot do the things you used to do? Especially friends on a2k. We have had the joy of meeting, in person, many a2kers and many of our good friends we've never met.

Is it possible to get across the idea that good friends would be terribly saddened if they knew that one of their friends wasn't willing to talk openly about their missing abilities? Whining is one thing, (and Dys certainly would never whine), but sharing one's troubles is expected in a good friendship.

Not necessarily on a public forum. I think we sometimes see this as a private collective that isn't being watched by who knows how many lurkers at any given time. I'm always very, very careful about putting my own personal information here and I wouldn't put anything about Mr B without checking with him first. In fact, I rarely talk about him here because it's not up to me to discuss him on an open forum. There is another forum where we both participate and I would never say anything about him there -- his life is not my story to tell in public, even in ways that it may affect me. I think if someone wants their good friends here to know that they're suffering then PM would be a better way to handle that.

As to the issues with car keys - my father was fretting over the fact that he didn't have his keys when he was in the hospital and nursing home. We gave him the keys. At that point he wasn't able to leave the hospital/nursing home and the car was sitting in his driveway. The drs said that having his keys was much more important to him than being able to drive. There was an earlier time that his ability to drive was questionable. He gave up driving at night on his own. He didn't give up driving in the daylight until he was in the hospital. He probably should have stopped driving a year or two earlier.

Phoenix, I don't bring my mother to the doctor. She doesn't even see a doctor, she sees an RN. I could find the name of the Dr/RN and phone them up, but how would they react to that? And how would my mother react when her doc told her I'd expressed concern. It would be a fiasco. Maybe I could enlist my father.

Thanks for your concern, sweetie. We're doing OK. It's still weird the think that she's gone, but she's not in any more pain.

K, would your Mom object to you going with her the next time she has a Dr/RN appointment?

littlek- darn- I wrote this long thread, and then lost it. Anyhow, I think that you need to have a heart to heart talk with your dad. Express your concern about your mom, and suggest that he take her to a neurologist.

He may be in denial, but you need to keep at it. What I have found, with the people in my group, is that the entire business of getting a handle on things is a long process, and often does not go smoothly.

There is a wonderful book, called "The 36 Hour Day" which is the "bible" for people caring for loved ones with dementia. IMO, it is a worthwhile investment, and may give you more insights as to just what is going on with your mom.

The Alzheimers' Association's website has some great information.

Diane- Each person is different. When I had my cancer, I made a well thought out, conscious decision between two choices. It was either to keep quiet, and hide the fact that I was sick, possibly mortally, or tell the world.

I decided that if I could do nothing else in my life, I was going to be the #1 role model. I wanted to share my knowledge and experiences with just about anyone who would listen to me, trying my best not to become too obnoxious about it.

There are other people to whom just opening up about their personal medical travails is counter to their very nature. I would expect that with many men, just the thought of admitting to what they erroneously consider "weakness" would just be too traumatic. The entire idea needs to be brought up gently and compassionately.

In the best of all possible worlds, a person with a any sort of problem can benefit greatly by sharing all sorts of troubles with friends, and looking to them for support, and possibly information. Conversely, the friends can become closer to the individual, by seeing him/her through a trying time.

I think that the person closest to the loved one with the problem can make suggestions, but ultimately the decision is up to the person involved. I don't think that it is productive to "force" the issue, but a gentle nudging might just be in order.

In our experience that's the most 'strange' feeling: anytime, we are away for some days, we think of phoning our mothers that we've arrived here and there ... all those 'traditions' which we've done over the years, decades, only now are back in memory. Weird.
(On the other hand, it has been and is easy for me in our former house whil Mrs. Walter still remembers where this has been and that that is going to chance ...)

I remember when my father died, many years ago. for a long time, maybe even years, I would think I saw him for an intant in a crowd or in a store. Part of my brain expected to see him at any time.

After my mom died, I would startle every time the phone rang. For years, it always meant a problem.

Lovely post.

Phoenix, it isn't only men, although they are by far more withdrawn about their problems, whether financial or emotional.

I think, though, that women tend to not want to be considered whiney. Mental illness has, still has, a stgma that won't go away..

Bi-plolar disorder is one of those. Plus, I never wanted to have a label that desribed only one part of me. The thought of being called "that woman with bi-polar disorder, as if that labeled everything about me, is horrendous. The fact that I have done hundreds of hours with people with disabilities, or served on boards of directors or had good friends, or that was funny and lively. Now, I don't give a ****.

The people who know me aand care for me are not put off by mental illness. They care much more about froendship.

The person who has really suffered, has been Dys, but he has to live with me, poor guy.

I am terribly sorry about the two threads I wrote about my health and about Dys leaving me. I was terrified to the point of losing my rationality.

I have always done my best to be a tough old broad, none of this health stuff, and, basically, I'm still a tough old broad who will do anything to keep that irrationality away.