Real Life in Mexico

"Los Hijos de Sánchez" was critisized by the Mexican government at the time. It "denigrated" Mexico, they said.
It was published by one of the government's printers, FCE. The director of FCE, Arnaldo Orfila, was fired by President Diaz Ordaz because of it. Right then, it became a bestseller.
"Los Hijos de Sánchez" may or may not be a good book, but the publisher's fate is telling about authoritarian nationalism.
I've said it elsewhere. Mexico was very much like a jail disguised as a country, back in the '60s.
That's why I dislike so much the people who see no blemishes in their own country and get angry if another person points them out. That kind of patriotism makes me sick.

Well, actually, my friend that is a (I think, I haven't talked with her in six months and she is pushing the age envelope) newscaster and her sister, also pal, their grandmother sold tamales on the downtown streets of LA rather early on.. Which is why they all do this around Christmas. (They were the pals with family in Mazatlan.)

I am perhaps too forthcoming here. I don't want to make use of their history to get interest.

I hope we are more of a continuum. My friends, those.. er, girls, as we all thought of us then, are serious women. I am an american pal, and I respect Mexico past all the obvious fooforaw. You all have fooforaw and we manufacture it by the bushelfull.

I never felt separate, once I went to Mexico, but I am just a stupida, a woman of irish am descent from LA. Yeh, I was pretty cute then too. But, alas, I had brown hair.

Which gave me some distance to watch.

Diaz Ordaz, I remember him, but then, you remember him better.

Let me be clear, I am just a person who sort of noticed, and that rather little. Not a polisci major, etc.

Yaaaaak, at least four posts.
I promise to be quiet for a while.

Oscar Lewis' very special up close look at the everyday life of Mexican analogs of our "white trash" population was, I think, pretty accurate. He has been accused (e.g., Chas Valentine), for his Culture of Poverty theory, of blaming the victim for his misery. In a way this is true. If we consider the difficulty in getting chronically poor people to behave like middle class people. But we must realize that for chronically powerless and poor people--everywhere, not just in Mexico--their patterns of values and behavior generally serve them as a form of adaptation to chronic poverty and powerlessness. They amount, indeed--as Lewis contended--to systems of adaptive actions, i.e., cultures of poverty. But I think Lewis did not mean to demean the people he described. In fact, I think he was showing the cleverness, the creativity, with which they adapted to their condition. Mexican anthropologists I have known (e.g., Alfonso Villa-Rojas) found his work a bit offensive. I was never sure why. American sociologists and anthropologists are not offended when they, or foreign social scientists, describe the lifestyles of our poor in unflattering terms. Mexicans loved the anthropological writing of Robert Redfield, a man who described the people of Tepotzlan in glowing terms, actually describing them in terms of their cultural system of social ideals. Oscar Lewis did a restudy of the same town, but focused on their actual behavior. His version was not at all complimentary (Aha, perhaps that's why Villa-Rojas did not like him; Villa Rojas was a protoge of Redfield). Lewis was not trying to demean the people of Tepotzlan. He wanted to expose Redfield's romantic type of ethnographic anthropology that gave readers a fuzzy and unrealistic feeling of exotic thrills
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Fbaezer, thanks for the up-to-date info on the concept of pochismo. Chicanos in general would be very happy to know of the change.

(edited)

JL Nobody, you point out a very important matter, in political as well as in national cultural terms.

One of the books by Luis González de Alba, a leader of the '68 movement, is called "Las Mentiras de Mis Maestros" ("The Lies of My Teachers"). One of his favorite targets is the "glowing terms" anthropology, which has a lot to do with the strange Mexican brand of cultural and political nationalism: Mexicans as "the Cosmic Race" (I'm not kidding: being mixed gets to be poetically superior), the "heroic" Aztecs (a cruel empire) as National ancestors, and everything "foreign" (like rock and roll, Coca-Cola, socialism or democracy) taking the roll of the mean conquistador. This, of course, led to having authoritarian "keepers of the national faith", ready to blame foreign influence on anything that undermined their power (this was clearly the case of Díaz Ordaz in 1968).

Gonzalez de Alba is still provocative. He writes:

"White men, with European culture, affluent origin and liberal ideology are very good. They love little animals, women, handicapped people and Indians who don't know how to toil their lands. Seals have Brigitte Bardot, Mexican Indians have Fernando Benitez and, since 1994, a bright constelation of white bearded counselors... What was of the Olmecas eons before Benitez dedicated "20 years to the defense and the study of the Indians"? Why didn't he defend and study his aunts? Why the f-Vck do Indians need to be "defended and studied"?... There is a Western and European fantasy, by which the so-called primitive peoples, marginal in the global culture, are superior in some "profound" way. When the Europeans expanded through the Earth, bringing their genes, their ideas, their values, their animals and their plants, they first denied the humanity of the defeated. With Romanticism, the so-called primitives became fashionable, and it's still fashionable to glorify some of the vanquished. They do it like the zoo director who doesn't see that the lion purring at her legs, in front of the TV is also one lion less, a lion destroyed in his lion essence..."

I agree completely, Fbaezer. But I'm surprised to hear such words from a Mexican. The Instituto Nacional Indigenista, the governmenl agency run by Mexican anthropologists (Alfonso Villa-Rojas was its director the time I talked with him) for the protection of Indiansand the preservation of their cultures tends to be a farce. They seem to put "Indians" and their "culture" in some kind of an anthropological zoo, mainly to attrack tourists dollars and to justify the Mexican Revolution. The Revolution can be justified mainly on grounds of class warfare--which is one reasons most intellectuals and many artists, following the Revolution were socialists (the muralists, Rivera and Siqueiros, were communists, or fellow travelers), UNDERSTANDABLY. But I very much dislike the very notion of "Indian" not only because it is an historical misnomer but because it has served as a way to treat the lower classes as essentially different and inferior in some places like rural Chiapas, and romantically superior, as in Mexico City (witness the antics of Frida Kalho and the pseudo anthropologist, Eulalia Guzman, who claimed to have found the bones of Cuauhtemoc). In the former areas, "Indians" were rendered sub-human so that they could be exploited wilth impunity and in the latter, romanticized for the most neurotic of reasons. In either case the people defined as Indian were despised. The same in the U.S. where we romanticize the noble savage but demean his descendants. The people defined as Indians should be recognized as people and assisted in their efforts to overcome oppression and exploitation. It's a matter of class, not race. When "race" (a concept now rejected by Anthropology) enters the equation, we have the dynamic of "ethnicity," an ornament of class relations.

It's good to see this thread is still alive.

Since Dys and I have moved to Albuquerque, I have begun to understand, to some extent, what it is like to be an ethnic minority, although not in a different country. I'm not sure what the division is, but there are far more Mexicans than gringos here and that is obvious everyday in different, but fundamental ways: the announcements at Home Depot are most often in Spanish, the drug stores have to look to find a flyer in English, the "D's" are pronounced as "th's." I had to think for a minute before I realized that the man doing some work for us, while giving a friend directions--pronounced a street "Lathera" instead of "Ladera." There is also a kind of condesension the Mexicans have toward the Indians--something that is centuries old.

These are very small things but they are constant--not in an unpleasant way--just the opposite--and I have found my 'foreigness' to be a good lesson in adaptation.

Now my goal is to learn Spanish--something I should have done long ago growing up in Tucson, but all my Mexican friends spoke English and I was lazy and...typically American, more's the pity.

JLNobody, some news.

The Instituto Nacional Indigenista dissappeared about 2 years ago.
It was substituted by the Comisión Nacional para el Desarrollo de los Pueblos Indígenas (National Comission for the Development of the Indigenous Peoples).
The main difference is that the old paternalistic "help the Indians" view was substituted by this council, which acts as coordinator of all policies that have to do with the indigenous peoples.
By law, all indigenous ethnic groups are represented in the Council and participate in the decision making of any policy that affects their communities in any way. The anthropologists, academicians and government bureaucrats are still there, in the council, but as a minority.

Good news. Viva Mexico.

Well well, how many stories are there about the old coruption in Mexico. You first have to look at the entire how old the old government was to fully understand the entire essence of coruption in Mexico. The PRI which was the government before President Fox (PAN) came into power had a regime of 70 years. They were able to maintain their grip of power due to their bedpal coruption. One of their presidents were executed because he wanted to make a reform in the early 90's Colosio was his name. After every presidential term the Mexican economy dropped due to the fact that the presidents either stole money and property or did actually nothing to benefit the country at all and all their debtors finally wanted to collect.

Now since the corruption in the government is so high, not so high today as back then, Fox did a good job so far. All corruption climbed down all the way to the lowest campesino. The police are the biggest bribe takers, they get paid so little that steeling with their police power is the only way they can make money. Example, if you drive 5 kilometers over the speed limit, they would want to take your car and give you an incredibly large fine, unless you slip them 200 pesos( $20 USD) and they will forget everything. There are some cases when the federal police gets involved and the sum listed above is raised a bit. If you go to jail and have enough money, guess what, you don't go to jail. If you want to get your case in the governement examined faster than the rest, just wave some cash. In Mexico, money talks and it talks with power.

This is just a small overlook of the corruption of Mexico, any other questions and I will be happy to respond to them. This obviously is one of the lower points of Mexican society but in general Mexico is a nice place to live in.

furiousflee, that sounds like an accurate portrayal of Mexican corruption. I'm glad you noted that the police take bribes (mordita) because that IS in fact their salary. It is just the way the Mexican public "pays" their low level officials, instead of by means of taxes--unless, of course, if the realilty is that they DO pay the necessary taxes, but that they are siphoned off by middle and high level officials). I just pay bribes with a smile and find that travel in Mexico is greatly facilitated by my attitude. Sometimes the bribe requested is unacceptably high, so I negotiate. They would always prefer to take something rather than take me to the judges (delegacion) and thereby gain nothing for themselves. I DO think, however, that foreigners should not have to subsidize Mexican lower level officialdom. That should be paid by bribes taken from Mexican residents. Ha!
The situation has, however, gotten out of control. I have friends and relatives in urban Mexico (D.C. and Guadalajara) who have been forced by police to take money out of their ATMs. This is simple robbery, occuring under threat of violence.

Yep, I heard about the entire cops taking people to the ATM machines aswell, but that happens more in Mexico City, (DF) and in TJ, the problem with those places is that it really is high in crime rates and so forth. They also have a high kidnapping rate which normally is done by the police himself. But luckily I am a tall South-African that has many years in full contact Karate and I lived in the most dangerous city in South-Africa, where I have learned to surivive in, also I live in Nuevo Leon, Monterrey where the bark is definetly worse than the bite, and the fact that I work for a non-profit org, which the government respects very highly it makes my life a lot easier. I am the cultural director of this which makes me part of the nucleus team, and let me tell you, the "perros" back down....

Life is good in Mexico, in fact, since I lived in the states and I can make a comparison, in my personal view of things...I like Mexico more! No offence to anybody!

No offense taken here. I had an uncle who lived in Nuevo Leon. I only visited him a couple of times but found the level of living there very acceptable.

Well, furiousflee, the traffic cops' is the most evident type of corruption... and the only one I have practiced (actually, you have no choice).

I thought, rather, on other kind of corruption. Kickbacks in business and government, mainly. I wanna know how it's perceived now.

As for (not so) old times, I can give a couple of anecdotes.
A few days after I was appointed director of the government's newspaper (1992), the general manager came to my office with a load of pesos, cash (about 20 thousand dollars at the time). He said it was a 5% kickback from a supplier an aide of his had taken, and asked me what to do with the money.
It was obvious he wanted to make me part of the gang.
"Put it in cash flow", I told him.
"The accounting won't fit", he replied.
"Then shove it up your ass".
I informed my superiors, and both men were investigated and fired.


A year later, I became programming director for a TV network. Afetr a few months of tight budgeting on my part, a supplier came, and offered me a set of 100 movies for 16 thousand dollars each. The former director had bought them a similar set at 18 thousand dollars. I had found out that the average price for the Mexican open TV market was between 11 and 13 thousand dollars per movie. The supplier offered me 2 thousand bucks per movie, as kickback. It was 200 thousand dollars! I just didn't take them (could never see my children on the eye). Imagine the kickback for the former programming director.

I praise you for your honesty, Fbaezer. My wife's father was the head of public roads (at the federal level) in the 40s. He worked hard to keep the department honest, even prosecuted contractors for their practice of taking kickbacks and using inferior (cheaper) materials and pocketing the savings. The trouble is that the CULTURE of corruption in Mexico is so solid that honest officials may be denigrated by many people as "pendejos". It is easier to be honest in the U.S. where the culture frowns on dishonesty, and very difficult to be honest where it is not expected. One of the municipal presidents in the municipality of Teopisca (Chiapas), was honest. He left office just as poor as when he entered. He was ridiculed by the voters at the end of his tenure, and rarely left his house--out of shame--until his death (of parkinsons) a decade later. A very sad situation.

I've been in some situations where the policeman asks for a bribe and I've refused to give any money to him.

There was one time when I was with some friends and a police man asks us if we want to give him money or go to the police department, o he takes us to 'la delegación' and before anybody got out of the car he comes over and tells us we are free to go.

I know a clean policeman and he stays in the community where he is at so he can be away from the corruption.