Its Independence Day!! And Im about to get really obnoxious about it! LOL

@gungasnake,

Quote:

What we call liberals and liberal they would have called criminals and criminal (adj.).

Right - Land of the free and home of the brave - as long as they look and think just like you.

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@GracieGirl,

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We're far from perfect but we're working on it and we're trying to make things better. Isn't that something to celebrate about?

The illegal immigrants that get rounded up and sent back to Mexico might have a different opinion. It's too late to ask the American Indians.

Some people are trying to make things better.

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@GracieGirl,

HA I was joking, mostly, playing off of your thread title!

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@GracieGirl,

Gracie,

I think you miss the point of Snood's post. Celebrating our country is fine and good, but it should be a respectful celebration with the understand that our country, for all its triumphs, has done some pretty terrible things too.

I think it is important to remember the bad along with the good.

There is a danger in Patriotism. Patriotism can blind us to the things that our country has done wrong and is doing wrong now. What we did to Native Americans and Mexicans was horrible.

It was Patriotism that made it possible to kill innocent people. It is important to remember this so that hopefully we will realize it when it happens again.

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@maxdancona,

I strongly like major things about my country, including some really good documents. I've seen us mess up enough to gouge into that, but not quite kill my appreciation.

Past that, I'm very attached, much as I am interested, though never fully informed but neither is anyone else, and I do mean anyone, about the rest of the world.

Seeing a newly fourteen year old screech (like tennis women at Wimbledon) about Freedom does get obnoxious, even though I know you don't mean to be obnoxious, Gracie. Freedom is as freedom does, and we in the US have many aspects of running over people in our past. But of course, running over people is quite human and many groups do it, and then retribution is nigh, which is called defense.

It's all a set up, we act this way - I started reading Herodotus a while ago and was pulled in to watching how life changes over a lot of territory. He's an early greek historian, his Histories extremely readable, if as said later, fairly inaccurate.

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@ossobuco,

I know this is a light hearted thread in intent.

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@ossobuco,

Quote:

Seeing a newly fourteen year old screech (like tennis women at Wimbledon) about Freedom does get obnoxious, even though I know you don't mean to be obnoxious, Gracie.

Well it was certainly ...um... an off putting experience. Neutral

But then, going by her title for this thread, I guess that was the point of the thread?
To be obnoxious.
It's a shame that some of the adult US A2Kers here, who regularly communicate with her, didn't alert her before she made such a goose of herself.
.

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Yeah their isn't much freedom in America, I'm just saying.

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What a disgusting display. Miss Olga, you don't love Australia, warts and all? Do the Englishmen whining here not love England, warts and all? Certainly Douglas' point was well taken--in the 1850s. What about the hundreds of thousands of Americans who died to end slavery? They don't count? What about the Americans, white and black, who marched, and yes, some who died, in the civil rights movement of the 1960s? They don't count?

I don't think anyone who doesn't live here is in any posiiton to judge how much freedom Americans have. Americans have far more democratic control of their lives than any other nation i know of. Americans can vote every year on how they are taxed, who sits on the bench in the courts, who run their counties and their cities, quite apart from the national elections every other year. Who are you people to judge?

If Gracie wants to celebrate the country she loves, one day a year, one day out of 365, i'm glad to see it. Screw the rest of you clowns.

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@msolga,

CHORUS
Charlie don't surf and we think he should
Charlie don't surf and you know that it ain't no good
Charlie don't surf for his hamburger Momma
Charlie's gonna be a napalm star
Everybody wants to rule the world
Must be something we get from birth
One truth is we never learn
Satellites will make space burn

We've been told to keep the strangers out
We don't like them starting to hang around
We don't like them all over town
Across the world we are going to blow them down

CHORUS

The reign of the super powers must be over
So many armies can't free the earth
Soon the rock will roll over
Africa is choking on their Coca Cola
It's a one a way street in a one horse town
One way people starting to brag around
You can laugh, put them down
These one way people gonna blow us down

CHORUS

Charlie don't surf he'll never learn
Charlie don't surf though he's got a gun
Charlie don't surf think that he should
Charlie don't surf we really think he should
Charlie don't surf

Charlie don't surf and we think he should
Charlie don't surf and you know that it ain't no good
Charlie don't surf for his hamburger Momma
Charlie don't surf

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_uB-0D-gV8mY/SUXV5e0_zII/AAAAAAAASLM/pV6bhTA-2hI/s400/clash

The only band that matters.

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@Setanta,

Quote:

What a disgusting display. Miss Olga, you don't love Australia, warts and all?

No, I don't. If you've read any of my (many) posts to the Oz election thread & also to other threads, Setanta, you would know that I have many concerns about the "warts" attributed to my own country. And there are quite a few. Same as in most countries, including yours, yes?
Maybe that's a "disgusting display"?
Do you consider a "my country, right or wrong" attitude to be healthy to any democratic country?

I don't see too many "whining" Englishmen .. or women either, for that matter. You seem to have a thing about the English which I find difficult to comprehend.

Quote:

What about the hundreds of thousands of Americans who died to end slavery? They don't count? What about the Americans, white and black, who marched, and yes, some who died, in the civil rights movement of the 1960s? They don't count?

Of course they count!
They deserve the highest of praise for what they did, the sacrifices they made, for the common good.
But, they weren't the subject of this thread.

Quote:

I don't think anyone who doesn't live here is in any posiiton to judge how much freedom Americans have.

Who is judging?
And who is comparing your "freedom" to other countries?
What other country carries on about its own "freedoms" in quite the same way?
It is the mindless political slogans about US "freedom", which seems to suggest that "freedom" (however you define it) is somehow exclusive to the US which is utterly ridiculous.

Quote:

If Gracie wants to celebrate the country she loves, one day a year, one day out of 365, i'm glad to see it. Screw the rest of you clowns.

Sure. If "Gracie" wants to celebrate your 4th of July celebrations, well why not?
I don't think anyone would have any problem with that. If she had chosen to be considerably less obnoxious about it

If you are "glad" to see the downright ignorance of the "freedom" rubbish that she posted non-stop, earlier in the thread, well that is your prerogative.
Maybe, just maybe, this was the perfect opportunity to educate a young person about political realities?

.

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@msolga,

msolga wrote:

. You seem to have a thing about the English which I find difficult to comprehend.

I don't, he likes to consider himself a victim.

Quote:

It is the mindless political slogans about US "freedom", which seems to suggest that "freedom" (however you define it) is somehow exclusive to the US which is utterly ridiculous.

Oh God yes.

Quote:

Do you consider a "my country, right or wrong" attitude to be healthy to any democratic country?

You're quite right, it's far from healthy. There's a world of difference between being comfortable in your own skin, and feeling the need to proclaim how superior your country is to any other.

The flag waving, marching, need to publicly pledge allegiance etc. are not the types of behaviour one would normally associate with a liberal democracy. It all seems a bit fascistic.

1 Reply

@msolga,

Straw man, who here articulated "my country right or wrong?" If you don't love Australia, why don't you move to some place you would love? I don't "have a thing" about the English. I was just resonding to the fact that two of them showed up to **** all over Gracie's thread. A harmless thread i will add.

How is it that Gracie's thread, which was about her love of her country not about those who have died for their conception of freedom. Those remarks were a response to the criticism leveled at her with regrad to slavery.

NObody here claimed that freedom is exclusive to the United States. You must have some bizarre kind of chip on your shoulder.

MegaSanbu was judging.

Now that you've decided, from the depths of your ignorance, that her remarks about "freedom" are rubbish, i'd say you're judging, too.

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@izzythepush,

As usual, when you have no argument, you make **** up. I have never portrayed myself as a victim of the English. Your silly little country is in no position to victimize me.

I'm sure you're hoping to get a rise out of me, or someone, with the comment about fascism. It's not gonna work, because i just consider the source. I know of nobody here who has said "my country right or wrong."

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

Straw man, who here articulated "my country right or wrong?" If you don't love Australia, why don't you move to some place you would love?

Is that why you pissed off to Canada in order to take advantage of the Universal Health Care paid for by Canadian taxpayers?

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

As usual, when you have no argument, you just make **** up. I am not a landed immigrant, therefore i do not participate in the health care system. Idiot.

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@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

I know of nobody here who has said "my country right or wrong."

That's why you get apoplectic when someone says that america might possibly not be the best country in the world.

You may not have said it, but you act it all the time.

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@izzythepush,

As usual, when you have no argument, you just make **** up. You're nothing to me, so i am certainly not "apoplectic." This is just a venue to discuss these things--you're the only one i see around here who routinely gets hysterical. I have never even remotely suggested, explicity or implicitly, that the United States is the greatest coutnry in the world.

You can only keep this going by making **** up, by attributing to me things i have not said nor even suggested.

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@izzythepush,

Sham 69 are a pretty good band too.

they wanted us to go
to new york city
but the man at the embassy
said "oh, what a pity!"
"we know all the things you've done in the past
but never mind son...carry on smokin' the grass"

they didn't want us in the usa
we didn't wanna go there anyway
they don't want us in the u s of a

Our manager said to us
"what's all the fuss?!"
we said we don't know
but they won't let us go
what could you do to make them do this to you
i don't know boss!
have a little puff on the grass

they didn't want us in the usa
we didn't wanna go there anyway
they don't want us in the u s of a

the press all started to ring
asking what's happening?
my boss said I don't know
but I said they won't let us go!
we don't care what you think of us
this is were we live!
"stick america up your arse!"

they didn't want us in the usa
we didn't wanna go there anyway
they don't want us in the u s of a

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Quote:

Straw man, who here articulated "my country right or wrong?" If you don't love Australia, why don't you move to some place you would love?

I can't believe you don't get it, Setanta.
Of course I love my country, but it is not some sort of mindless "my country right or wrong" sort of love ... I want my country to be better than it is, not just accept aspects of it which I believe could be far better
Is that so hard to get?

1 Reply

Its Independence Day!! And Im about to get really obnoxious about it! LOL

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