Its Independence Day!! And Im about to get really obnoxious about it! LOL

"Patriotism is the belief your country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it.” George Bernard Shaw

I have no problems criticizing my own country's foreign or domestic policies at any given point in time, or in debating and discussing policies in my country's history with my fellow citizens or with people from other places, I just don't see those things as having any relevance or connection to what's being celebrated on the 4th of July. This nation, and it's government, wouldn't even be here to criticize if that Declaration hadn't been signed in 1776. I'm glad we're here, I'm glad I was born here, and I think that's what Gracie was saying too. Patriotism, just like organized religion, can have ugly aspects when it's used as a tool of abuse or to make others feel inferior. But that wasn't what Gracie was doing, she was expressing her love of her country on the one day of the year when we can enjoy some sense of national unity and pride in our country's ideals and guiding principles rather than focus on the differences that can, and often do, divide us.

Why is it necessary to present a "counter-view" to any of that, or to do it in this particular thread? Can't some celebrations ever be free of divisiveness, just to have some fun--and having some fun was clearly what Gracie was doing. Does even a fun thread at A2K have to become more serious or combative in tone?

Whether one liked, or disliked, the style in which she expressed herself, she is simply happy she was born in the U.S.A., and she chose a very appropriate occasion, Independence Day, to express those feelings, I don't know why anyone would feel compelled to try to counter-balance that sort of love of country and appreciation of citizenship. While people are certainly free to do that sort of thing, for their own reasons, and not everyone who did so was trying to incite ot agitate, it does throw an unnecessary damper on something intended to be a "fun" thread. Sometimes we should just allow ourselves, and others here, to have some fun.

The assholes would be assholes, and the relatively good-humored would have thought it was amusing.

but separate nations probably work as a decent "check and balance" for humanity

On the contrary. If some British kid came in here on whatever day you people celebrate Britain

How ******* condescending. You don't think that in fourteen years she has gained an understanding through living a life that goes beyond mouthing platitudes from Lee Greenwood songs and parroting jingoism.
And you work with kids you say - jesus!

sozobe wrote:

This is actually very interesting. The expectation seems to be that I'd find the post full of pro-England images annoying, somehow, as an American. When I didn't in the least.

Probably because it's more of a novelty. It's not so much of a novelty for us, what with certain posters constantly banging on about how America is much better than anywhere else, and expecting us to fall to our needs and thank you all for WW2.

...
As for her "liking" where she lives, that's great. But what has a 14 year old got to base that on? Compared to what? She's had experience enough to mouth platitudes from a Lee Greenwood song, and parrot jingoism she's heard from others. She has every right to do so, to do it in a cutsie "look out! I'm about to get obnoxious!" thread, to do it standing on her goddam head on the roof. I don't care.

But everyone who's posted something here that was not flattering about the US has the same right.

izzythepush wrote:

sozobe wrote:

This is actually very interesting. The expectation seems to be that I'd find the post full of pro-England images annoying, somehow, as an American. When I didn't in the least.

Probably because it's more of a novelty. It's not so much of a novelty for us, what with certain posters constantly banging on about how America is much better than anywhere else, and expecting us to fall to our needs and thank you all for WW2.

Are you sure you just don't have an inferiority complex?

Lash wrote:

On the contrary. If some British kid came in here on whatever day you people celebrate Britain

And what day would that be?

Again, my opinion and yours. No, I don't think a fourteen year old generally does have any basis on which to base a worldview that objectively balances her native country against the rest of the world. If you do, that's fine. But it doesn't make my opinion ******* condescension. And it certainly wasn't any cause for you to question my ability or my fitness to work with teenagers. That's hysterical hyperbole, whether your're thinking about Bruce Springsteen or Bruce Lee. .

I appreciate my country because of the rights of citizenship that I enjoy here--the primary one being that we have a government that derives it's power from the consent of the governed--and my most significant act of "patriotism" has been to vote in every single election, both general elections and primary elections, that has been held since I came of age many decades ago, and to work toward changing those conditions and policies with which I do not agree.

and the fact that we've survived and thrived as a nation.

What is at all "ugly" about that sort of national pride or the festivities that celebrate the signing of a document that put forth our national ideals and guiding principles, ideals and principles of government which were not wide-spread in the world on July 4th, 1776, and ideals and principles which successive generations in our country have worked to bring into fruition since that time.