Is it Child Abuse or Neglect?

Money is probably an issue, but so is transport....most of those low cost summer programs dont start till 8-9, prime sleeping time for dad an I'll bet working time for mom. Swing shift is already hard on body and soul, not sure we should expect dad to suffer even more to satisfy the busy-bodies.

As much as the SAFETY! crowd hates it parental needs and economic reality do have an impact on what can be done to cocoon children from all possible harm.

Not all eight year olds all swell alone in a house, while some are super smart.

I was a very only - only - child. But I am not him. I happened to be helped by one of our moves, where I met and played with other children.

I'm all for the Y and similar solutions. Plus much that has been said before.

I also sympathize that this is not your deal to handle at the same time I think you matter.

This father is doing more than just sleeping. He's self-absorbed and he's ignoring the child when he's awake as well, and not relating to the child very well either. The father is also ignoring the absolute basics of child care--whether the child is eating properly, or at all, or even whether the child has toilet paper to use. Did you read about the feces covered paper towels in the bathroom wastebasket?

This really isn't an adequate situation for a child to be in day after day. The father is not acting responsibly--even when he's awake--and that makes the situation the mother's responsibility as well.

Finances might be a problem--but that's not a legitimate excuse for these parents not to address the situation and try to find a better solution to their child care issues.There is some daycare available at the mother's job, and she should see if her other child can spend the day there too. And she should look into summer programs that are available in the community--including those in schools and churches--just to find out what might be available. The mother should seek out a community social services agency--places like Catholic Charities, Jewish Family and Community Services, or any of the agencies that address family problems--and see if a social worker can help her find an appropriate affordable child care alternative.

Child care costs are part of the parent's responsibility, it's part of the cost of raising a child for a working parent. Just because leaving the child with his father might be the cheapest alternative does not solve the problem--the child is not being adequately cared for on a day after day basis. For an occasional baby-sitting arrangement it might be acceptable, but not day after day. And, because the father is at home, and available, they might have made little or no effort to find a more adequate solution for this child.

I think the OP is quite right to be disturbed by this situation, and if it weren't for her looking after the child, the little boy would be even worse off--but the child is not her responsibility. She shouldn't have to try to remedy the neglect she's seeing. She's not being a "busy-body", she's acting like a responsible adult--because the child's father is failing to do that.

This little boy isn't being left all alone, but he's being kept in a fairly isolated situation without much to do or occupy him. Apart from his interactions with the OP, he sounds pretty alone, including when his father is awake and ignoring him. He doesn't have anything to do other than watch TV or play on a "pretend phone"--it doesn't sound like he has toys, video games, play materials, etc.--things to amuse himself with. To put an 8 year old in a situation like that, day after day, is awful. I don't wonder that the boy clings to the OP for some attention and contact and stimulation.

Thank you for your kind words I just want to make sure I'm not overreacting and the child's getting a good quality life!!

Thank you. I don't mind the kid at all - he's an absolute sweetheart! And YES. Article-writing takes about three hours longer with kids nearby!

So, the reason I got on this forum was to (a) ensure I wasn't overreacting, and (b) to get advice from individuals with more experience than myself, before I made any uniformed decisions.

The definition of 'busybody' is 'a meddling or prying person.' I didn't meddle or pry with the dad and his son; in fact I had nothing to do with them until the son started staying here and is now glued to my hip. I'm trying to figure out if it's healthy for a father to ignore his child all day, not just when he's asleep. I didn't care that he needed to sleep during the day. I started caring when he didn't even acknowledge the child's existence for the four/five hours he was awake and walking around.

You're probably right, though. I'll ignore the child, and then he'll be completely isolated from other people and never socialize with anyone. Because healthy development doesn't include social interaction. And obviously an 8 year old knows everything about life and will never get into trouble if left constantly unsupervised. I mean, unsupervised 16-year-olds die from drunk driving, get pregnant and make other uniformed decisions, but obviously this 8 year old has the mental and emotional stability he needs to take care of himself on his own every single day.

Next time I ask a question and get advice BEFORE taking action, I just won't. Obviously it makes me a busybody, so, whatever.

PSH, OBVIOUSLY. I had a house and a job by the time I was 8, this kid's obviously just lazy! Still living with his dad, even? Shameful.

The ignored part bothers me the most. The dad ignores the child - that can't be good for him.

I said earlier - give suggestions to the dad about having a sandwich made, etc. The other concern is that the child doesn't have healthy food available to him - not just that he is making it himself as well as the father basically ignoring him when the dad is available.

It isn't that the kid can't do some basic stuff for him. But by the way my mom did something similar when I was in the sixth grade - although not at 8 - 8 is just a tad young to be completely solo - she would go to sleep when I came home from school and I would take care of my toddler brother and my 8 year old brother.

This kid is not locked in a closet and starved full time you know. How many weeks a year is this? Out of those weeks how many days are both mom and dad working so that this non ideal situation happens? What are this kids digital links to the outside world....when my oldest was 8 she was on the computer talking to astronauts in the Space Shuttle as I was sleeping as my wife walked in the door ( a story she loves to tell about our homeschooling days) , so maybe "kid is home alone" does not mean the same thing to me as it does to others.

Didn't you read the OP's posts describing the situation this child is in when he's with his father? It doesn't seem you've bothered to do that at all.

Other than watching TV, and talking on his "pretend phone", this child apparently has no toys or play materials or books he could use to occupy or amuse himself with, let alone does he seem to have "digital links" or electronic devices.

Not only is the child ignored by his father, even when the father is awake, which is leaving him rather isolated and lonely (which accounts for his use of a "pretend phone" and his clinging to the OP), he also is seemingly being left without resources he could use to occupy himself, all day, day after day.

Probably at least all summer, while school isn't in session. Two months is a long time for an 8 year old to have to contend with conditions like that. And it's not just that the conditions are less than ideal, they are treading the line of even being legally minimally adequate--particularly regarding things such as nutrition and basic health/hygiene, when the need for proper food and things like toilet paper are being ignored.

And mom and dad don't live together and we don't know if this child's life situation is any better when he's at home with mom.

Instead of relying on what "kid is home alone" means to you, try reading the descriptions the OP has given of this specific child's situation so you understand her concerns and what she is reacting to.

The discription is very incomplete, and the OP's basis to judge the situtuation has not been presented. How often is she there? Has she talked to this kid to find out if he seems OK and if not why not has she done even this little before deciding that he is not properly cared for?

I am not ready to jump. I want more information.

Why? You've ignored the information she's already given.

And the OP's boyfriend, who lives with the child's father, is also distressed by the situation.

You're actually absolutely right. Thank you. When the father moved in, the only toys the son brought was a bicycle and a play station 2, which his father has not hooked up. I actually brought in a bunch of books, water guns, nerf guns, toy cars and other miscellaneous things for him leftover from my teaching days. Dad hasn't bought the kid a new toy in the last three months, that I know of! Today I literally did nothing but clean the house for a few hours - and he helped the whole time, just because it was something to do with someone!!

To make some things clear to you,

1) I am here everyday. I have just finished the process of moving in with my boyfriend into the house. YES, it happens EVERY DAY.
2) I have talked to the child. When I ask him what he does, likes to do, or does with his dad, he has nothing to say, even when I prompt him (do you play video games? Do you like baseball? Where do you want to go for summer vacation?) The only thing he talks about constantly is his pretend phone. When I ask him what he does with his dad, it's "nothing" (because that's the truth). When I ask him what he likes to eat, it's the same ("nothing" or "iceys"). I haven't asked him about getting hit or anything, since there aren't signs of that, but let me tell you - that kid ISN'T doing ANYTHING.
3) I have never seen the father make a meal for him. Even in the evening, just before he goes home to his mother, where he has dinner. At around 6, the father will eat a burrito while his son sits and watches. If he asks for food, the father says "go get a pudding pack" or "go make some cheesy bites" (they're this microwavable pizza thing). I will say that, every now and then he brings the kid a plate.

Please, if you have any questions about the 'situation' let me know. I thought I had given a pretty clear picture of what was happening, but if you'd like an hour-by-hour summary, I can provide that too.

Just for reference, so you know: about twenty minutes ago, the father got up. The son has been coloring a picture of a truck we drew together while I was writing this. The dad looked in and said nothing. I think he went to the kitchen, but I'm not sure where he is now. Once again. If I was the kid's mother, it'd be one thing - but I'm not. I'm not even a babysitter. It's ridiculous.

I think you've painted a pretty clear picture of the child's situation. Even before your last post, the picture was rather clear. And it's a dismal situation.

Can either you or your boyfriend hook up the Play Station 2 for him? He can probably take out games from the public library if he needs them, or wants them, and his mother can take him there on a weekend. And, if he goes to the library, he can also pick up books or DVDs or videos to watch.

Thank goodness you're there and available to him, and you've already done a great deal to help him. And he sounds like a nice kid. He's lucked out by having you around.

I'm just curious, who does he talk to on his "pretend phone"?

My boyfriend is actually talking to him now. He's making those kinds of suggestions, along with asking why he doesn't put the son in a summer camp. We'll see how it turns out, I guess!

Ok......I believe that the state and busyboddies should not interfere into families most of the time, but here I think you are vested, and that there is reason to be concerned about the welfare of the kid.

Thanks, firefly. My boyfriend is talking to him right now and I don't know how it's going (I took the kid outside so he wasn't there for it). The two guys have been friends since they were five, though, so I think its ok.

We've brought in some other game consoles and toys for him, and there's whole bookcase now of kids books (lol my personal stash) so he at least has a lot more available.

His "pretend phone" is, I guess, like an iPhone. It looks like one and it has games on it, but he can't text or call anyone but his mom. It also does this flashing light thing. He likes to try and text me on it, but it won't go through, of course. So really, he doesn't talk to anyone on it, just play games.

I agree. I think in general people shouldn't try to tell others how to raise their kids, especially when they don't have kids themselves (like me!) So I got on the forum instead to ask. I've just never seen this behavior from a parent before, and I used to teach, tutor and provide personal childcare. Thanks for being the devil's advocate, though, because if I was wrong I'd like to know it before I stuck my nose in!