Derevon wrote:Frank Apisa wrote:
Derevon wrote:Why else would you be calling them liars, pretenders and delusional?
I have not called anyone a liar -- nor have I called anyone delusional. I have, I acknowledge, questioned some individuals as to whether or not that person KNOWS if they are being delusional or not.
Don't make stuff up and then post it as though you are stating facts. If you cannot be ethical in your posts, argue with someone else.
Frank Apisa wrote:You are The Great Pretender, Derevon. Doesn't make you a bad person. But it does make you untruthful.
My mistake, you merely called me untruthful, which is of course something completely different than calling somebody a liar.
Deveron, we were discussing this thread.
If you are interpreting my comment "I have not called anyone a liar..." to mean that I have NEVER IN MY LIFE EVER CALLED ANYONE A LIAR OR CALLED THEM UNTRUTHFUL (which really is different no matter that you don't see the difference) -- then you are not as bright as I give you credit for.
That comment was not part of THIS thread -- and we are discussing this thread in this thread.
This is another example of you being unethical in this debate. (YES, I did call you unethical.)
Quote:
Frank Apisa wrote:Derevon wrote: You just claimed people are guessing about God!
Post exactly what I said and we will look at it in context. I don't think you are particularly good at paraphrasing -- and you really should stay away from it.
Frank Apisa wrote:People who "believe" things are actually disguising the fact that they are guessing.
You were of course referring to people who believe in Bigfoot and the tooth fairy, and not in God. Silly of me, sorry.
No, I was not talking about people who "believe" in Bigfoot or the Tooth Fairy -- I was talking about people who "believe" in anything. But I will use your illustration of "belief in god."
If a person says, "I believe God exists" -- the person, in my opinion, is saying "I guess God exists" -- but is disguising the fact that he/she is saying that.
And, Yes, it was silly of you to write that sentence, because I meant exactly what I said. I wanted you to furnish an accurate quote so that I could know what you were referencing.
Now that I know what you were referencing --- YES, I do think people who say "I believe there is a God" -- ARE GUESSING.
Do you, for some reason, suspect they are not guessing?
Do you suspect they KNOW there is a God?
And if YES, do you also suspect that the people who claim they KNOW there are no gods also KNOW -- rather than are guessing?
BOTTOM LINE: I said earlier that it is POSSIBLE to know if God exists. I most assuredly did not say that MY GUESS is that there are people WHO DO KNOW that God exists.
Frankly, I think all these people who claim they KNOW Gods exist are merely sharing guesses disguised with the word "believe."
Quote:Frank Apisa wrote:Not only do I not state (or "believe") that it is not possible to know if a God exists -- I have actually argued with a great deal of passion against people who assert that to be so.
Got that?
My guess is that I have discussed this issue in several dozens of threads -- and I am VERY adamant on the issue. Anyone who claims that "it is impossible to know if God exists" -- is making, in my opinion, an extremely wrong-headed assertion.
If there is a God -- for absolutely certain, that God, if It chose to do so, could make Its existence KNOWN unambiguously -- without any doubt whatsoever.
Got that?
Exactly. "if It chose to do so". There may of course be countless of reasons not to.
Of course -- and if there is a God -- MY GUESS is that it would NOT choose to make itself know. That is my guess, if for no other reason, than the fact that if there is a God, It certainly hasn't done so.
(The only reasonable guess that can be made about that piece of literary over-reaching known as the Bible is that it is not an unambiguous revelation of any god. The best guess about it is that it is a series of fairytales - written in very, very over-rated prose and poetry.)
Quote:Don't you realise that what you say is contradictory to many of your posts?
No I don't -- and that is because I am not contradictory.
I suspect you are in way over your head here, Deveron. You don't seem able to keep up with the discussion -- and your logic and reasoning are not up to the task.
If you have contradictions that you think merit discussion - bring them up. We'll discuss them.
Quote: You state that anyone who claims that it is impossible to know if God exists is making an extremely wrongheaded assertion. Yet you often call that which a person claims to know about God, crap.
Often????
And you can document "often?"
Let me ask you this: Do you KNOW of anyone who KNOWS God exists?
Quote: Or is this first statement merely intended as a hypothetical statement about the possibility of knowing about God's existence in a universe in general, if he/it had unambiguously made his/its existence known there? If so, you should perhaps try to be more unambiguous.
If there is anyone who should be striving for less ambiguity, it is you.
I have no idea of where the hell you were heading with this paragraph snippet, but you missed.
If you can state your notion more clearly, I'll respond.
But we are getting way off track.
I DO NOT THINK ANYONE IN THIS FORUM CAN TRUTHFULLY ASSERT THAT THEY
KNOW IF THERE IS A GOD -- OR IF THERE ARE NO GODS.
MY GUESS: At best, anyone asserting that "there is a God" or "there are no gods" in this forum -- is making a guess.
If you want to guess otherwise, Derevon -- go right ahead and do so. But don't give me any more **** about my guesses -- okay! I at least have the ethics and honestly to identify my guesses as guesses rather than trying to hawk them as revelation.
On a personal note: I hope all is well with you and your family. Here in New Jersey we are enjoying a few of the most gorgeous days imaginable - and I hope you folks are all enjoying something comparable.
