Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2012 06:11 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

No, you utter partisan hack.

When was Romney ever legally charged with tax evasion?


Oh, is the standard of guilt now someone who is legally charged with something? Or do the goalposts just sorta shift around depending on your position on the field? Right.

You're boring me today, Finn. Think I'll check out for a bit. Like I said before - have fun defending your loser-ass candidate for the next three months.

Cycloptichorn
engineer
 
  4  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2012 06:17 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Plenty of Republican Congressmen have gone the birther route or part-way by saying "I want to see the documents." For example Rep. Cathy McMorris Rodgers (R-WA), Vice-Chair of the House Republican Conference — "We’re all going to find out," when asked the birther question. When asked again, she said: "Oh, I’d like to see the documents."

The Progress Report: The Wacko Wing wrote:
In March, Rep. Bill Posey (R-FL) introduced legislation requiring "presidential candidates to produce copies of their birth certificates and other documentation to prove natural-born citizenship." Posey's bill has gathered nine co-sponsors in the House. Trying to explain why he introduced the bill, Posey issued a statement saying, "This bill, by simply requiring such documentation for future candidates for president, will remove this issue as a reason for questioning the legitimacy of a candidate elected as president." But Posey has undermined this seemingly innocuous rationale for his legislation by outright accusing Obama of hiding something on a right-wing Internet radio show. "The only people that I know who are afraid to take drug tests are the people who use drugs," said Posey. Claiming that he hadn't looked at the evidence, Posey previously told the Orlando Sentinel, "I can't swear on a stack of Bibles whether he is or isn't" a citizen. On MSNBC's Hardball last week, host Chris Matthews challenged one of the bill's co-sponsors, Rep. John Campbell (R-CA), telling him that "what you're doing is appeasing the nutcases ... you're verifying the paranoia out there." Asked if he believed Obama was a citizen, Campbell responded, "as far as I know, yes." Matthews retorted, "As far as you know? I'm showing you his birth certificate!" Matthews is correct that many conservative lawmakers are comfortable "feeding the wacko wing." Just today, Politico reported that Sen. James Inhofe (R-OK) said birthers "have a point." "I don't discourage it," said Inhofe.


Remember the Republicans were doing this after Obama has released his birth certificate and after extensive investigations had confirmed Obama's place of birth. When Reid introduces a law to say that Presidential candidates must release ten years of tax returns after Romney has released them, then I think Reid is up there with the birthers.

But the point of my post was not that Reid was right, but that Romney has not learned from Obama's error. All he has to do to make Reid look like an idiot is to release his tax returns. What are they going to show? That he gives extensively to charity? That he pays many thousands in taxes? Just release them and be done with it. I am 100% certain that Romney's taxes are completely above board even if he used many legal methods to reduce taxes. He's a fool for letting it ride.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2012 06:24 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

We're not sure whether Romney is a "tax cheat."

I am sure Romney is not a tax cheat.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2012 06:42 pm
@engineer,
The only question I have is that Romney has a huge balance in his IRA based on government limitations on how much anyone can contribute to their plan.

Beyond that, I'm not sure why he's hiding his tax returns.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  5  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2012 08:01 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Oops, it turns out Romney has been in this tax return debate before, but on the other side.

Quote:
Republican Presidential nominee Mitt Romney has seen pressure mount from both Democrats and Republican pundits to release his tax returns. Romney has maintained that he is “simply not enthusiastic” about giving Democrats “hundreds or thousands of more pages to pick through, distort, and lie about.”

But in 2002, during his run for Governor Romney attacked his opponent Shannon O’Brien for not releasing her husband’s tax returns.

Romney said he declined to release his tax returns on a “principled position” saying it one debate “I value my privacy.” The Romney campaign accused O’Brien, who released her tax returns every year since 1998, of being disingenuous by releasing her but not her husband's returns, a former lobbyist who had worked with Enron.

Romney spokesman and current top Romney aide Eric Fehnrstrom claimed O’Brien was attempting to hide possibly embarrassing finances from voters.

"Her hands aren't clean. She can't claim to be disclosing anything until she discloses the returns of her husband, the Enron lobbyist,” Fehnrstrom said. “Under Shannon O'Brien, the state Pension Board lost millions by buying Enron stock when it was collapsing -- what is she hiding?"


http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/romney-campaign-attacked-opponent-for-refusing-to
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2012 08:13 pm
@engineer,
engineer wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:

We're not sure whether Romney is a "tax cheat."

I am sure Romney is not a tax cheat.

What makes you so sure? His superior culture?
McGentrix
 
  0  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2012 08:19 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

No, you utter partisan hack.

When was Romney ever legally charged with tax evasion?


Oh, is the standard of guilt now someone who is legally charged with something? Or do the goalposts just sorta shift around depending on your position on the field? Right.

You're boring me today, Finn. Think I'll check out for a bit. Like I said before - have fun defending your loser-ass candidate for the next three months.

Cycloptichorn


How do you equate these 2 statements? They have me confused...

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Bill Ayers


What was he convicted of, again? Right.

Cycloptichorn


Can you explain the discrepancy here for me Cyc? Looks like you are moving goalposts all over the place.
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2012 08:23 pm
@McGentrix,
Looks like you are jumping the gun, defending your buddy and attacking Cyclo without understanding what's going on.

Read it again.
McGentrix
 
  0  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2012 08:30 pm
@DrewDad,
Not defending anyone, but it seems that in one place Cyc says that Ayers ( a member of a terrorist group and whom Obama "palled" around with) was not convicted of anything and therefore is not a terrorist. At the same time, he complains that someone has to be legally charged with something in order to be guilty of something when attacking Romney... Where exactly am I jumping the gun here?
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2012 09:08 pm
@McGentrix,
Finn's the one who was trying to have it both ways, IMO.

According to Finn, Romney's "being a tax cheat" is off the table because he was never charged.

On the other hand, claiming Obama has "terrorist ties" is apparently fair game because Ayer's was charged, even though the charges were dropped.

Of course, the idea that Obama is somehow morally tainted by proximity to Ayers is pretty silly to begin with. It's like saying the neighbors of the Batman guy are somehow responsible for his craziness.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2012 09:30 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:

engineer wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:

We're not sure whether Romney is a "tax cheat."

I am sure Romney is not a tax cheat.

What makes you so sure? His superior culture?

His superior lawyers and accountants.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2012 09:55 pm
@engineer,
I'm no fan of Romney, but to say he cheated on his tax returns is unfounded.

Thomas
 
  4  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2012 10:14 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
I'm no fan of Romney, but to say he cheated on his tax returns is unfounded.

I think you and engineer on the one side and Snood on the other are using the word "cheat" in slightly different ways. A very good tax lawyer, the only kind Romney would hire, can save you from paying taxes by exploiting loopholes in the tax code. While this isn't cheating in the technical sense of breaking the law, it is cheating in the broader sense that you game the system in ways it wasn't meant to be gamed.
JPB
 
  5  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2012 10:19 pm
@Thomas,
No, I think that's precisely how it was intended to be gamed by those who were paying large sums of money to lobby for exactly the tax code we have today.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2012 11:01 pm
@JPB,
I agree; they influence the tax code to favor their ability to deduct expenses that otherwise others are unable to take advantage of.

My definition of cheating means defrauding. I don't see them "defrauding," because they are following the tax codes.

Defrauding is when a taxpayer falsely declares expenses or doesn't claim all their income.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2012 11:13 pm
@engineer,
engineer wrote:

snood wrote:

engineer wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:

We're not sure whether Romney is a "tax cheat."

I am sure Romney is not a tax cheat.

What makes you so sure? His superior culture?

His superior lawyers and accountants.


Well, I know its true that sometimes one gets the best justice their money can buy, so I guess using any legal means to subvert tax laws is not cheating if you squint your eyes just right and stay dissonant about moral relativism.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Fri 3 Aug, 2012 03:15 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
That's a cheap shot considering the relative sizes our our countries.

Romney is a ******* arsehole. He like you tried to score cheap points by reminding poeople of his Olympics in the middle of nowhere.

engineer
 
  2  
Reply Fri 3 Aug, 2012 06:32 am
@Thomas,
I disagree that the system wasn't meant to be gamed that way. Congress routinely adds things into the tax code either to benefit their constituencies or to drive certain behavior. Why is mortgage interest tax deductible but not other interest? To encourage home buying. Is taking out a tax deductible second mortgage to buy a car instead of financing it directly gaming the system? I don't think so. I see nothing wrong with using every legal way to reduce your tax bill. Romney isn't doing anything I'm not allowed to do, I just don't have the extreme amounts of money he does so I can't take advantage of all the benefits that accrue to those with that kind of wealth. If I had his money, I would take his deductions and I wouldn't wring my hands over it or consider myself immoral. To me, the reason Romney should release his tax returns is not to show he is a cheat, but to illustrate how light the tax burden really is on the wealthy "job creators". Hopefully we will get to the place where someone who is working hard at an 8-5 job, putting in some overtime and having more and more trouble making ends meet will see that people who don't have those problems are paying a substantially lower tax rate and that reducing their taxes further is nonsensical. I'd be just as good with Warren Buffet's tax returns except that as a Presidential candidate, Romney's return will get more press.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Fri 3 Aug, 2012 07:29 am
@engineer,
engineer wrote:

snood wrote:

engineer wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:

We're not sure whether Romney is a "tax cheat."

I am sure Romney is not a tax cheat.

What makes you so sure? His superior culture?

His superior lawyers and accountants.

Unfortunately many of those superior lawyers and accountants used tax dodges for their clients that were later declared illegal. Whether that was the case with Romney, we don't know.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Aug, 2012 09:13 am
@izzythepush,
What would be a fairer, more accurate comparison would be to compare America's medal performance with that of the EU. And, so far the EU is way out in front, ahead of China and the US by a considerable margin.


European Union, Gold 22 Silver 33 Bronze 31 Total 86

China, Gold 18 Silver 10 Bronze 4 Total 32

United States, Gold 14 Silver 8 Bronze 9 Total 31

Figures correct at time of posting.

<br /> http://www.medaltracker.eu/
 

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