MontereyJack
 
  3  
Reply Sat 20 Oct, 2012 11:07 am
And Obama's right (if he actually said that) about building a coal-fired power plant. Thanks to new technology, the price of natural gas has dropped so much and the readily available supplies of it have increased so much that more expensive coal mining is decreasing. You can build and run a cleaner, more efficient, more flexible natural-gas fired power plant for a lot less than a coal-fired one.

And the Chinese have developed the technology to build latest-generation super ultra-critical coal plants for less than conventional coal-fired power plants. They did this, let me add, while the American coal industry took huge subsidies from the Bush administratiion and farted around and developed nothing.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -3  
Reply Sat 20 Oct, 2012 11:09 am
@Finn dAbuzz,


People like you do nothing but help Romney... please continue.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Sat 20 Oct, 2012 11:21 am
In short, if you were dumb enough to build a coal power plant, you probably would go bankrupt. Build a gas one if you want to build one.

Join the twenty-first century, H2O.
H2O MAN
 
  -3  
Reply Sat 20 Oct, 2012 11:27 am
@MontereyJack,

You are totally incorrect about how and why Obama bailed out GM and you know it.

Obama wants to close down the coal industry in OHIO, western PENNSYLVANIA and
the rest of the country... he wants to put thousands of Americans out of work.
jcboy
 
  2  
Reply Sat 20 Oct, 2012 11:32 am
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:


You are totally incorrect about how and why Obama bailed out GM and you know it.

Obama wants to close down the coal industry in OHIO, western PENNSYLVANIA and
the rest of the country... he wants to put thousands of Americans out of work.


Please post a source Cool
Below viewing threshold (view)
jcboy
 
  3  
Reply Sat 20 Oct, 2012 11:33 am
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:


Please post any evidence to the contrary


I asked you first Cool

I play these games with our six year old Cool
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Sat 20 Oct, 2012 11:38 am
Coal mining is tanking because natural gas is now much cheaper and now available in such huge amounts that many gas wells have been capped because there was no need for their supply. Simple economics, not politics. Sorry, H2, no cigar on this one either.
H2O MAN
 
  -3  
Reply Sat 20 Oct, 2012 11:51 am
@MontereyJack,


Sorry MJ, it's my guess that you are drunk on Obama's
Kool-Aid and unable to formulate a cogent thought.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  3  
Reply Sat 20 Oct, 2012 11:56 am
H2O says:

Quote:
You are totally incorrect about how and why Obama bailed out GM and you know it


Really? So why did he do it? Are you going to tell me it was all part of an insidious socialist plot to destroy the American economy by saving it?
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 20 Oct, 2012 12:03 pm
@MontereyJack,


One word: Unions
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 20 Oct, 2012 12:04 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:

Coal mining is tanking because natural gas is now much cheaper and now available in such huge amounts that many gas wells have been capped because there was no need for their supply. Simple economics, not politics. Sorry, H2, no cigar on this one either.


You are wrong. Prior to the shale gas boom, the cheapest source of electrical power was hydroelectric, followed by nuclear and then coal and finally natural gas. Hydroelectric is very efficient, but a relatively minor source of power in therms of its total contribution. As a result utility operators ran their nuclear plants 24/7 at full capacity, and used their gas turbine plants to cover peak loads, shutting them down during periods of low demand. Coal plants were in between, being slightly more expensive to operate than nuclear. Recently low gas prices have reversed the positions of gas and coal plants, making it more advantageous to shut down (or reduce the output of) coal plants during low demand periods.

However, Obama Administration EPA regulations, resulting from their outrageous claim that CO2 is a hazard to human health (something never forseen in the law) , impose a much greater effect on the future of coal as a source of power here, and even on their current operations. The reason is that any new coal plant and ANY modification or upgrade of existing plants now requires that the whole plant be brought up to newly established CO2 emission standards. The result is that utilities are now stuck with huge capital investments that under the arbitrary new EPA regulations, have no future. This, far more than the transient drop in the price of natural gas, is what is destroying this industry.

The fact is that Obama even during the 2008 campaign was fairly clear about his intent to make the use of coal uneconomic thru regulations. He has done so.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  3  
Reply Sat 20 Oct, 2012 01:03 pm
H2O says:
Quote:
One word: Unions

Ah, I see. So GM is back, far stronger than before, again the number one car maker in the world, and making record profits, all because of unions?

OK, I can accept that. Good on ya, unions.
H2O MAN
 
  -3  
Reply Sat 20 Oct, 2012 01:24 pm
@MontereyJack,


You are short on facts, but I've come to expect this from you and your ilk.

No more years for Obama!
jcboy
 
  6  
Reply Sat 20 Oct, 2012 01:33 pm
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:



You are short on facts, but I've come to expect this from you and your ilk.

No more years for Obama!


You just had to get that computer fixed didn't you Cool
H2O MAN
 
  -3  
Reply Sat 20 Oct, 2012 01:45 pm
@jcboy,


And just in time Cool
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  3  
Reply Sat 20 Oct, 2012 01:59 pm
You're the one who never backs up anything he posts here with any actual data, H2O, not me.
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 20 Oct, 2012 02:03 pm
@MontereyJack,
No soup for you!
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Oct, 2012 02:29 pm
@MontereyJack,
GM's stock price has soared so high, the government is begging to sell it's stock and take the profit.

Right?
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 20 Oct, 2012 05:56 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:

H2O says:
Quote:
One word: Unions

Ah, I see. So GM is back, far stronger than before, again the number one car maker in the world, and making record profits, all because of unions?

OK, I can accept that. Good on ya, unions.

GM is not "far stronger than before" and I'm skeptical thai it is any more the world's #1 car maker. Can you back this statement up??

GM would have recovered just as well from an ordinary bankrupcy as have many other companies, ranging from Delta Airlines to numerous other manufacturers. The principal effect of the Administrations intervention in the process was that, in defiance of normal bankrupcy law, the contracts between GM and those who lent it money (i.e. their bondholders = individual investors, owners of share in mutual funds, and beneficiaries of government pension funds, etc.) got screwed as the Administration invalidated their lawful guarantees and put the unions first in line for the remaining assets of the company. Now the UAW is the principal owner of the company - an interesting turn of events in that the parasite that almost destroyed the compant is now its owner. However the UAW remains a faithful contributor to the Democrat party.
 

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