georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Oct, 2012 03:01 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

So? A trade deficit is still a deficit that the US owes all other countries from trade. Do you understand the consequences of all that?

China buys raw materials from around the world, but especially from Australia. That gives Australia a false sense of a good economy which some people I met in Australia told us "it's a false economy." They're telling the truth, not the people who believes Australia's economy is strong.


Russia, Canada and Australia are all countries with large, relatively empty land areas and ample reserves of the natural resources on which the world economy is built. The same is true for our country as well, though to relatively less degree. That all of us should exploit those natural resources, whether we consume them ourselves or export them is both natural and, all things considered, beneficial to the world. Cinsider for a moment what would happen to others if they stopped.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Oct, 2012 03:11 pm
You wrote,
Quote:
Our trade deficit with the world is a reflection of our relative lack of competitivness in providing goods and services. It's our problem, not that of those who export to us.


Understood; my post is a reflection of what you have just confirmed. That's the reason why Romney's promise to create 12-million jobs is a an outright lie.

When we can't compete in the world marketplace, demand for our goods and services is reduced - ergo, less jobs - not more.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Oct, 2012 03:13 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

So? A trade deficit is still a deficit that the US owes all other countries from trade. Do you understand the consequences of all that?

China buys raw materials from around the world, but especially from Australia. That gives Australia a false sense of a good economy which some people I met in Australia told us "it's a false economy." They're telling the truth, not the people who believes Australia's economy is strong.


Our trade deficit with the world is a reflection of our relative lack of competitiveness in delivering goods and services compared to our competitors. That's how free market capitalism levels imbalances in wealth and productivity. It's our problem, not the problem of those who export to us (though I do occasionally get a bit testy about Canada's sensitivities on the matter).

Australia, Canada, Russia and even the United States are all large countries, with ample open space and abundant reserves of natural resources sorely needed in the world economy. It is entirely natural, appropriate and beneficial for everyone that they develop, use and export them. Consider for a moment what would happen to themselves and others if they stopped doing so.
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Sun 14 Oct, 2012 03:17 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

You wrote,
Quote:
Our trade deficit with the world is a reflection of our relative lack of competitivness in providing goods and services. It's our problem, not that of those who export to us.


Understood; my post is a reflection of what you have just confirmed. That's the reason why Romney's promise to create 12-million jobs is a an outright lie.

When we can't compete in the world marketplace, demand for our goods and services is reduced - ergo, less jobs - not more.


I don't understand your meaning. Romney is proposing specific measures to address the problem you cited and to improve our economic competitiveness, It is our idiot, narcisist and incompetent president who is taking the opposite course. Giving public money to the likes of Solyndra while preventing the development of known reservbes of gas and petroleum and paying off his political supporters in self-serving labor unions has turned out to be a very effective approach to holding back our economy.
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Sun 14 Oct, 2012 03:43 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
It befuddles me that the proposers of the Pipeline didn't propose a route around them - something they could easily have done. I also believe the pipeline will eventually be build and it will avoid this area.

So... they proposed the wrong thing, and failed to provide alternatives, and it is somehow Obama's fault that the pipeline didn't get built?

I suppose the governement should have stepped in and fixed the proposal?

Wouldn't you then be screaming about it being corporate welfare and/or socialism and/or an unfair intrusion into the marketplace?
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Sun 14 Oct, 2012 03:47 pm
@DrewDad,
No. Instead I would describe such an action as an appropriate response to the proposed permit as described in the legislation establishing the process of environmental review.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sun 14 Oct, 2012 04:14 pm
@georgeob1,
It's interesting that all you conservatives talk about is "Solyndra" and not the two wars or the drug benefit that hasn't been paid for by GW Bush. Comparatively speaking, at least Solyndra was for the American People, and at much less cost. If it not for the unfair trade from China to subsidize their solar panel production, Solyndra may have survived. AS a matter of fact, Solyndra is now suing China on this very subject.

We still don't have the detail on how Romney can "create" 12-million jobs in four years. That converts to 250,000 new jobs every month.

I have a very simple question when there's a world recession; how?

How many jobs will the pipeline - if it ever gets government approval create?

And who will pay for that pipeline?
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Sun 14 Oct, 2012 04:25 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

It's interesting that all you conservatives talk about is "Solyndra" and not the two wars or the drug benefit that hasn't been paid for by GW Bush. Comparatively speaking, at least Solyndra was for the American People, and at much less cost. If it not for the unfair trade from China to subsidize their solar panel production, Solyndra may have survived. AS a matter of fact, Solyndra is now suing China on this very subject.

We still don't have the detail on how Romney can "create" 12-million jobs in four years. That converts to 250,000 new jobs every month.

I have a very simple question when there's a world recession; how?

How many jobs will the pipeline - if it ever gets government approval create?

And who will pay for that pipeline?


The developers ( the Canadian & U.S> oil companies which proposed the project) would have paid for it. The multi year construction project itself would have created many thousands of new jobs in this country precisely iun areas hard hit by unemployment.

Moreover, the project would have lowered the cost of delivering the right variety of Petroleum to U.S. refineries in Louisiana and Texas that otherwise will import heavy crude from Venezuela at much higher cost - a cost that will eventually reflect itself in the price of gasoline here.

Authorizing oil and gas extraction on the vast federal lands out west would have an even greater beneficial economic effect, and would, as, well, lower our imports and improve our balance of payments and reducing our trade deficit. That means less borrowing from China.

The reliability of these actions in improving our economy and environment is vastly greater than the idiotic subsidies Obama has provided to solar power developers. Absent large federal subsidies there is NO significant market for solar power. It is far from ready for prime time because it's real costs are more than three times those of coal, gas or nuclear power..
0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  2  
Reply Sun 14 Oct, 2012 04:26 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Transcanada will own and pay for the pipeline.
For all your questions, please read...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keystone_Pipeline
As for jobs, directly or indirectly there will be many jobs. Not only to build it, but to maintain it and then more in the subsequent refineries. Not to mention all the part suppliers, trucking firms and so on that will benefit from it.
Then there are all the companies that will use the oil and by products. Again, there are already over 200,000 miles of pipes already in the ground in the USA.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Oct, 2012 04:28 pm
@Ceili,
Remarkable - we at last agree on something. Smile
Ceili
 
  2  
Reply Sun 14 Oct, 2012 04:33 pm
@georgeob1,
We have in the past as well... Wink
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Oct, 2012 04:34 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Chaney.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Sun 14 Oct, 2012 04:38 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
However as we both know most of it involves organic and metallic contamination that is far more mobile than heavy petroleum, whichgenerally presents a far less hazardous potential to deep aquifers
Petroleum is a mix of all sorts of organics that Partition and flow at surprisingly different rates. Thats why, in a gasoline spill, one cane see that BTX components and longer chains can be held near the spill source by their higher Kd's but we all knoiw tht the lighter components and additives like MTBE and alcohols will take off like a race horse and bound out ahead of a plume. If your geologists are telling you differently, Id fire them and get more competent help.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Sun 14 Oct, 2012 04:40 pm
@Ceili,
The "oil" mix will be a veritable cocktail of all sorts of organic components that can move at different rates and can seep nd be drawn into an aquifer.

I say, why the hell run the pipeline through that speciic route when it can be safely rerouted fairly easily.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Oct, 2012 04:41 pm
@Ceili,
So, what will be the ratio of Canadian vs American jobs on that pipeline?
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Sun 14 Oct, 2012 04:43 pm
@farmerman,
I wrote an unsolicited proposal re the routing of this trqnsport several years ago before it became a hot button. Just like most clients, nobody wants to hear CAUTION.
Imagine if we lived in a non regulation based world?? Wed be burying our kids faster than we were in the gilded age
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Oct, 2012 04:44 pm
@farmerman,
Here's another "big money" republican threatening his employees.

Quote:

Koch Industries, the Wichita, Kan.-based company run by the billionaire Koch brothers, sent a voter information packet to 45,000 employees of its Georgia Pacific subsidiary earlier this month. In it w...


Why can't fair-minded Americans see the evil in this kind of threat?
0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  2  
Reply Sun 14 Oct, 2012 04:45 pm
@farmerman,
I've said it before. The pipeline should never have been proposed through that route.
0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  2  
Reply Sun 14 Oct, 2012 04:47 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I'm assuming in the US, the majority of jobs would go to Americans. That is, if they want to work in the areas it's being built. At the moment, there are a ton of jobs open in the Bokken in N. Dakota that unemployed southerners aren't interested in, guess it's too cold...
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Sun 14 Oct, 2012 04:48 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
It is entirely natural, appropriate and beneficial for everyone that they develop, use and export them.


maybe 200 or 300 years ago

it's a different world and a different economy for everyone to get used to

http://www.geologicresources.com/dinosaur50x59.gif
 

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