1
   

Financial liability

 
 
husker
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Feb, 2004 11:08 am
computer glich! really - then it locked up and crashed for a reboot - new Dell here is 2 weeks, this Dell is getting tired and stretched to the max.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2004 05:24 pm
Speaking of cost cutting, I just remembered an old Eric Raymond article called "Conventions at Light Speed". Written in 1998, when Linux was still as exotic as American Sign Language, the piece tries to teach how the Science Fictions community maximizes manages to organize their conventions on a shoestring budget.

The advice seems generic enough to apply it to your event, so here it is:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/sfshows/
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2004 05:33 pm
husker, The free printer I got from Dell when I bought the computer was a lemon, but Dell replaced it pretty quickly. I'm pretty happy with Dell service - so far.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 11:35 am
OK, lawyerdude got back to me, what do you guys think?

Quote:
We do have insurance, and [chair] and [business manager] know that but I guess they werent sure if we had insurance for whatever specific purpose you asked about.

The board would be, in theory, liable for any outstanding expenses, but our insurance company should cover such an eventuality. I think we will be able to cover all expenses with minimal losses even if we dont raise $$$ and dont sell a great number of tickets to the conference. I think we will be fine if we just sell as many tickets as possible. Last time, most people bought tickets at the door. I predict that will happen again. You may be right about reducing costs whenever possible.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 11:45 am
I'd ask to see the specifics on the insurance...
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 11:46 am
Yeah...
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 11:55 am
Quote:
We do have insurance

Good. That's a start.

Quote:
The board would be, in theory, liable for any outstanding expenses, but our insurance company should cover such an eventuality.

From personal experience, I can tell you that "In theory" statements like this have a nasty way of materializing in practice. People are notoriously optimistic about the probabilities involved, because their perception of reality is distorted by a this-only-happens-to-other-people field. Please do yourself a favor and get the 'should' clarified with the insurance company.

Quote:
I think we will be fine if we just sell as many tickets as possible. Last time, most people bought tickets at the door. I predict that will happen again.

To quote one of our common heroes: "When playing Russian roulette, the fact that the first shot got off safely is little comfort for the next." The point is not that everything will probably turn out fine, the point is that you may be playing Russian roulette with personal bankruptcy. You don't want that, regardless of the odds.

Quote:
You may be right about reducing costs whenever possible.

Damn straight you are. Don't give an inch!
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 12:05 pm
Me, I'd be thinking about resigning from the board, but I see the difficulty in pulling out now. Can you volunteer and not be on the board?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 12:12 pm
soz, You had better read the fine print on that insurance policy. Never heard of any insurance that covered income shortfalls - except maybe through Lloyds of London. c.i.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 01:03 pm
Heh!

This is my plan right now...

Work my butt off. (Well, I've been doing that, but even more so.) Get as much money as I possibly possibly can. (Some promising nibbles lately!)

When I have reached a certain amount -- I haven't decided what yet, maybe the $22,000 figure in the latest budget -- I resign. I explain that I have really not had the time for this for a very long time, but have been loath to leave them in the lurch. Now that the minimum has been reached, and other possibilities are in process (I'll document everything nicely to hand off to whomever), I finally feel comfortable resigning to focus on, among other things, my upcoming move. (99% certain we're moving to Columbus, OH this summer.)

That is all true, and gets me out of things with a minimum of fuss, hopefully.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 01:14 pm
Sozobe wrote:
This is my plan right now...

That's a good plan if the major, potentially neck-breaking invoices are already written. If they are not yet written, and if you don't know the insurance will cover the losses by the time they are written, resign the day before this happens. Don't think of this as quitting. Think of it as returning a used car that turned out to be a lemon. I understand your concern about 'minimum of fuss', but don't be ashamed to make a scandal if you change your mind. What these people are doing to you is grossly, blatantly, ridiculously irresponsible. I wouldn't wish a board like this on George Bush himself!
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 05:38 pm
"sozobe"
Quote:
OK, lawyerdude got back to me, what do you guys think?


1. What kind of law does lawyerdude practice?

Quote:
We do have insurance, and [chair] and [business manager] know that but I guess they werent sure if we had insurance for whatever specific purpose you asked about.


2. Whatever specific purpose? Could lawyerdude be any less clear about what the question was?

Quote:
The board would be, in theory, liable for any outstanding expenses, but our insurance company should cover such an eventuality.


3. In theory? o.k., he's admitting the board would be liable for any outstanding expenses. Insurers are very clear that theory = practice. That's why freakin' lawyers write the policies, to make sure there are loopholes only on the side of the insurer. (i've worked for 5 insurers over the past 20+ years. i'm pretty confident about this)

4. Should? Somebody better get a copy of that policy - talk to the issuing agent AND insurer.

Quote:
I think we will be able to cover all expenses with minimal losses even if we dont raise $$$ and dont sell a great number of tickets to the conference. I think we will be fine if we just sell as many tickets as possible.


5. I think? I think? o.k., my blood pressure would be through the roof if someone suggested to me this was any kind of legal input/advice.

Quote:
Last time, most people bought tickets at the door. I predict that will happen again.


6. Now lawyerdude is channelling Karnak the magnificent?

If one of the lawyers who works on files with me presented this, I'd be calling a managing partner. It's one giant "I haven't really got a clue. What was the question again?"

Quote:
You may be right about reducing costs whenever possible.


7. o.k., so lawyerdude may have a tiny clue what you're getting at.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 06:26 pm
You actually have reason to leave this minute, given this lawyerdude response (humbleopinion here).

I was part of a team that loused up a big exhibit once. No, not my fault, in fact a person who through that experience with me became a longtime friend and I physically put it up ourselves working for 72 hours straight (burn, I still burn..) That was a job I did the staying thing for...

I thank my lucky stars or lowly pebbles that they didn't make me a director after all - I was hurt at the time.

Anyway, I smelled difficulty beforehand and couldn't budge them. What an exhausting episode (not the 72 hours, I mean the ten months...)!!

Sniffing the air for trouble fumes...
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 10:03 pm
I followed up re: insurance; "Can you give me more details on insurance? I did some research (D&0, etc.) and everything seemed to stop short of covering contractual obligations." He said he would check into it and get back to me.

I'm happy to be getting this stuff in writing, anyway.

Karnak. Heh.

<shoulders slump>

Oh maaaaaan...

Thanks, again, for this good advice from people who know wtf they're talking about. Very helpful.

I'm definitely charting a course that calls for me to resign well before any invoices have been written (none have so far, aside from the NYE event, which was covered), am just trying to figure out when. I would really really really really like to get them some more money first. It's for both altruistic and selfish reasons -- I just hate to leave them in the lurch, incompetents though they may be, but also the Deaf community is tiny and gossipy and it could seriously hurt my chances for getting a job later in Columbus even if the word in the Deaf community is that I am a quitter. I'm not, I know that, and I think the important people know that, and if I have to quit tomorrow, I'll quit tomorrow, but if I can possibly squeak out a solution where I deliver the goods AND cover my can, I'll be happiest.

(Several enthusiastic emails exchanged with a Chicago Fire [soccer team] guy, he's all gung ho about supporting us one way or the other.)
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 10:30 pm
OK, E.G. has been reading along, he wants to know if there is a way for me to avoid being on anyone's radar for a possible lawsuit. Like, not that they would WIN a lawsuit, but that they wouldn't even bring it against me.

Is it just that the board, en masse, would be sued? And that if I'm not on the board when that happens, I would be in the clear?

Is quitting now enough? Is quitting after I have gotten more money better? Should I not quit until I have documented a whole bunch of complaints and concerns? (already have done a lot of this.) Etc.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 10:44 pm
sozobe, I'm not positive about this, but I don't think "volunteers" outside of board members can be named in any suit, since they don't have any fiduciary responsibilities for the organization.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 10:45 pm
Nobody on the whole board (including officers) is getting paid. We're all volunteers.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 10:49 pm
That's true that board members are unpaid, but they have a legal, fiduciary, responsibility to the organization. If they don't understand that point, it should be made clear to them. Most nonprofit organizations (501c3's) have voluntary boards, but they have fiduciary responsibilities that makes them exposed to legal suits.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 10:51 pm
OK, wanted to make sure that part was clear.

I'm not sure yet what demarcates the outer borders of who is and isn't a board member, but as far as I can tell, I am. Not an officer, but a regular board member along with about 30 other people.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 10:53 pm
sozobe, Check out this link. Most states have the same criteria for nonprofit board members.
http://www.nonprofits.org/npofaq/03/02.html
0 Replies
 
 

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