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I do not believe gods exist…but I do not believe there are no gods.

Forums: Religion, Word Salad, Logic, Apisa Match, Not Atheism
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joefromchicago
 
  0  
Mon 21 May, 2012 12:26 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
Don't ever change, buddy. I like when you are happy. Wink

Right back atcha', big guy! And I know you're a smart guy who obviously understands just how confused and contradictory your position has become. It's just that you're too darned proud and ... well, stubborn as all get-out to acknowledge it. That's why you keep repeating the same flimsy, nonsensical explanations -- not because they have any chance of convincing us, but because you desperately want to convince yourself. And that's what we love about you, Frank. It's fellas like you what give "ornery ol' coot" a good name!
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Mon 21 May, 2012 01:00 pm
@joefromchicago,
Quote:
Right back atcha', big guy! And I know you're a smart guy who obviously understands just how confused and contradictory your position has become. It's just that you're too darned proud and ... well, stubborn as all get-out to acknowledge it. That's why you keep repeating the same flimsy, nonsensical explanations -- not because they have any chance of convincing us, but because you desperately want to convince yourself. And that's what we love about you, Frank. It's fellas like you what give "ornery ol' coot" a good name!


Yo, Joe, now we are getting somewhere. We are getting to where you really want to be in all your discussions...to the point where you use stuff like, "stubborn as all get-out” (that is so cute), “flimsy, nonsensical explanations” “onery ol’coot” (one of my favorites)…and I love it.

You are fun when you are all worked up, Joe. I like the way you work your way into these things…heading towards boiling slowly, but inexorably.

And your move gives me a chance to ‘splain it to everyone all over again.

I do not believe there are gods. That simply is not one of my beliefs.

I also do not believe there are no gods. That also is not one of my beliefs.

Both those comments are about an absence of beliefs…as I have explained several times. (Not at all like that terrific, but tortured “Earth is round; Earth is flat” thingy you did.)

Joe, ole guy, you know I am correct. C’mon, you can let us all know…because actually, by now, we ALL know that there is nothing contradictory in what I am saying.

Isn’t this fun, Joe. You and me…going back and forth. You pretending you think I am being contradictory…and me not being contradictory and getting a huge kick out of your pretence.

We oughta take this on the road, Joe!
izzythepush
 
  -1  
Mon 21 May, 2012 01:07 pm
@Joe Nation,
It depends on the competition. Draws are fine in League matches where the champion is decided by the amount of points on a league table. Win 3, Draw 1, Lose 0.

If it's a knock out competition like a cup final there has to be a winner, and if like the Champions League final between Chelsea and Bayern Munich on Saturday, there's no winner it goes to penalty shoot outs. I don't we can blame you Americans for that.
0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  1  
Mon 21 May, 2012 02:08 pm
@failures art,
failures art wrote:

failures art wrote:
You know my questions, so the only thing stopping you is your insistence that I comply with an unnecessary request.


Frank, are you unable or unwilling?

A
R
T
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Mon 21 May, 2012 02:11 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
And your move gives me a chance to ‘splain it to everyone all over again.

This is what makes you such a national treasure, Frank. You're so doggone predictable! I could've scripted your response.

Frank Apisa wrote:
I do not believe there are gods. That simply is not one of my beliefs.

I also do not believe there are no gods. That also is not one of my beliefs.

Both those comments are about an absence of beliefs…as I have explained several times. (Not at all like that terrific, but tortured “Earth is round; Earth is flat” thingy you did.)

On the contrary. My "earth is flat/earth is round" thingy is all about the absence of beliefs too. When I say "I believe the earth is round," all I'm saying is that I don't believe the earth is un-round. What could be clearer?

But I'll note by that tell-tale vein that is popping ominously out of your forehead that this has all been somewhat trying for your patience, and I can understand how you can get a might testy in your old age -- but dagnabbit if an old codger hasn't earned the right to let off a little steam, who has?!

So I'm not going to ask you to admit that you agree with what I've been saying. We both know that you do, and that's good enough for me. And if it means jollying you along just to keep you from blowing an aneurysm, well, it would be the least I can do.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Mon 21 May, 2012 02:28 pm
@failures art,
Any time you want to ask you first question, do so. I will respond.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Mon 21 May, 2012 02:42 pm
@joefromchicago,
Quote:
On the contrary. My "earth is flat/earth is round" thingy is all about the absence of beliefs too. When I say "I believe the earth is round," all I'm saying is that I don't believe the earth is un-round. What could be clearer?


C'mon, Joe...read what you actually said! This attempt is cute, though, I will give you that.


Quote:
But I'll note by that tell-tale vein that is popping ominously out of your forehead that this has all been somewhat trying for your patience,


Nope…any tell-tale vein that you can see is one that you can see. And I suspect that you cannot even see me...so you must be seeing a tell-tale vein popping ominously out of your own forehead.

Yup, that must be it. Joe sees popping out of a forehead--and although he thinks it is my forehead, it probably is popping ominously out of his own forehead.

Get away from the mirror, Joe. You are damaging yourself.

Quote:
… and I can understand how you can get a might testy in your old age -- but dagnabbit if an old codger hasn't earned the right to let off a little steam, who has?!


Nice try, but it must even sound silly to you.

I am smiling from ear to ear, Joe. I love ya, Buddy. Laughing Laughing



Quote:
So I'm not going to ask you to admit that you agree with what I've been saying. We both know that you do, and that's good enough for me. And if it means jollying you along just to keep you from blowing an aneurysm, well, it would be the least I can do.


Jeez, that was really lame, Joe. But, hey, whata ya got going for you but lame stuff.

I do not express a belief in the existence of gods…and I do not express a belief that there are no gods. I simply do not express a belief in the matter.

Sorry you have so much trouble with this, Joe. It really isn't contradictory at all. I sure hope you see things more clearly when you are defending your clients.

Anyway, I love this, Joe. Keep comin’.

You are not going anywhere, but you are making fabulous time!!!
failures art
 
  1  
Mon 21 May, 2012 02:55 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

Any time you want to ask you first question, do so. I will respond.


In other words, you're still unwilling (despite Joe Nation asking you as well). Just checking in to see if you're over yourself. Carry on.

A
R
T
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Mon 21 May, 2012 02:58 pm
@failures art,
Quote:
In other words, you're still unwilling (despite Joe Nation asking you as well). Just checking in to see if you're over yourself. Carry on.


No problem, Art. If you change your mind and decide you want to ask your first question, just come back and ask it.
failures art
 
  1  
Mon 21 May, 2012 03:01 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

Quote:
In other words, you're still unwilling (despite Joe Nation asking you as well). Just checking in to see if you're over yourself. Carry on.


No problem, Art. If you change your mind and decide you want to ask your first question, just come back and ask it.


A
R
T
0 Replies
 
Rickoshay75
 
  1  
Mon 21 May, 2012 03:05 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

Can you all see that the title assertion is logical and that it is not inconsistent in any way?

Is there anyone here who thinks it is illogical or inconsistent?


In politics it's called sitting on the fence.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Mon 21 May, 2012 03:09 pm
@Rickoshay75,
Quote:
In politics it's called sitting on the fence.


It is not sitting on the fence when discussing whether or not gods exist...and I seriously doubt it is sitting on the fence in politics either.

But you certainly are entitled to your opinion...and I thank you for sharing it.
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Mon 21 May, 2012 03:12 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
C'mon, Joe...read what you actually said! This attempt is cute, though, I will give you that.

Aw, Frank, you're such a honey dripper. But I don't have to go over what I wrote. I know what I wrote. You just didn't understand it, bless your heart.

Frank Apisa wrote:
Nope…any tell-tale vein that you can see is one that you can see. And I suspect that you cannot even see me...so you must be seeing a tell-tale vein popping ominously out of your own forehead.

Geez, Frank, next you'll be saying "I'm rubber, you're glue." Take it up a notch, buddy, that was not up to your usual high standards.

Frank Apisa wrote:
I am smiling from ear to ear, Joe. I love ya, Buddy. Laughing Laughing

I can tell, even despite your obvious anger! That's why you're such a sweetheart!

Frank Apisa wrote:
Jeez, that was really lame, Joe. But, hey, whata ya got going for you but lame stuff.

Now now, Frank, don't let that infamous Latin temper of yours get the better of you. You're stronger than that!

Frank Apisa wrote:
I do not express a belief in the existence of gods…and I do not express a belief that there are no gods. I simply do not express a belief in the matter.

I'm tempted at this point to remind you that you should look at what you wrote, since you constantly change your words to avoid being pinned down to any one statement. But I won't do that. It might upset you.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Mon 21 May, 2012 03:22 pm
@joefromchicago,
Joe...don't worry about upsetting me. I am loving every minute of our conversation...and I can assure you I am in great spirits (well, maybe my feelings about my golf game could be a bit more up-beat!) But on this issue we are discussing...I am just fine.

By the way: If you were to look at my list of things I "believe", you would not find an item that says, "I believe there are gods."

And that is what I have been saying all along. I reword it from time to time...because some people (not mentioning any names!) just are just not able to grasp it...and I want to help them along.

That's the reason for the rewording!

Oh...one more thing: On my list of things of things I "believe", you would also not find an item that says, "I believe there are no gods." I've been saying that all along also.

Yup...I do not "believe" there are gods and I do not "believe" there are no gods. I just do not "believe" in this area.

Keep trying, Joe, you may eventually be able to understand it.
Rickoshay75
 
  1  
Mon 21 May, 2012 03:35 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

Quote:
In politics it's called sitting on the fence.


It is not sitting on the fence when discussing whether or not gods exist...and I seriously doubt it is sitting on the fence in politics either.

But you certainly are entitled to your opinion...and I thank you for sharing it.


Maybe either and or would be a better term, or you can't have it both ways
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  2  
Mon 21 May, 2012 03:41 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
Joe...don't worry about upsetting me. I am loving every minute of our conversation...and I can assure you I am in great spirits (well, maybe my feelings about my golf game could be a bit more up-beat!) But on this issue we are discussing...I am just fine.

You're so brave! I know it hurts you to say that, given how testy you've been in this exchange. But if it keeps your spirits up, I'll go along with you.

Frank Apisa wrote:
By the way: If you were to look at my list of things I "believe", you would not find an item that says, "I believe there are gods."

See,when you said that this was all about things you didn't believe, I knew you were pulling my leg! That's why I love you, Frank: even though you're obviously upset, you're still able to make jokes.

Frank Apisa wrote:
And that is what I have been saying all along. I reword it from time to time...because some people (not mentioning any names!) just are just not able to grasp it...and I want to help them along.

Your positive attitude is an inspiration to all of us. Whereas some people would call that "being evasive," you call it "being helpful." You truly have a noble heart.

Frank Apisa wrote:
Oh...one more thing: On my list of things of things I "believe", you would also not find an item that says, "I believe there are no gods." I've been saying that all along also.

I know you've been saying that all along. And one of these days you'll actually believe it, as opposed to just "believing" it.

Frank Apisa wrote:
Yup...I do not "believe" there are gods and I do not "believe" there are no gods. I just do not "believe" in this area.

I like the addition of the quotation marks. It's a nice touch. Kinda' changes the whole meaning of the statement, but that's OK. I know you're only doing it to be "helpful."

Frank Apisa wrote:
Keep trying, Joe, you may eventually be able to understand it.

Aw, bless your heart, Frank. Despite your own obvious comprehension problems, you still think of other people first. You're a real Mensch!
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Mon 21 May, 2012 04:15 pm
@joefromchicago,
Quote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
Joe...don't worry about upsetting me. I am loving every minute of our conversation...and I can assure you I am in great spirits (well, maybe my feelings about my golf game could be a bit more up-beat!) But on this issue we are discussing...I am just fine.

You're so brave! I know it hurts you to say that, given how testy you've been in this exchange. But if it keeps your spirits up, I'll go along with you.

Frank Apisa wrote:
By the way: If you were to look at my list of things I "believe", you would not find an item that says, "I believe there are gods."

See,when you said that this was all about things you didn't believe, I knew you were pulling my leg! That's why I love you, Frank: even though you're obviously upset, you're still able to make jokes.

Frank Apisa wrote:
And that is what I have been saying all along. I reword it from time to time...because some people (not mentioning any names!) just are just not able to grasp it...and I want to help them along.

Your positive attitude is an inspiration to all of us. Whereas some people would call that "being evasive," you call it "being helpful." You truly have a noble heart.

Frank Apisa wrote:
Oh...one more thing: On my list of things of things I "believe", you would also not find an item that says, "I believe there are no gods." I've been saying that all along also.

I know you've been saying that all along. And one of these days you'll actually believe it, as opposed to just "believing" it.

Frank Apisa wrote:
Yup...I do not "believe" there are gods and I do not "believe" there are no gods. I just do not "believe" in this area.

I like the addition of the quotation marks. It's a nice touch. Kinda' changes the whole meaning of the statement, but that's OK. I know you're only doing it to be "helpful."

Frank Apisa wrote:
Keep trying, Joe, you may eventually be able to understand it.

Aw, bless your heart, Frank. Despite your own obvious comprehension problems, you still think of other people first. You're a real Mensch!


Joe, I just love the fact that you think I am upset. That is adorable.

But to be honest with ya, I appreciate you being here having this talk with me more than you can possibly imagine.

Keep this under yer bonnet, Joe, but some of these guys were actually freezing me out. They would not post. I needed someone to get this thread going again.

I gotta admit, I did not think it would be you. In fact, I never woulda thunk it. But here you are for me...and I will not forget this. Some day, I am going to see you being frozen out...and I am going to be there for ya, Joe.

I promise.

Thanks for the lift...and if you for a second you think that I do not appreciate it (if for a nanosecond you think I am in a pet about it) put it out of your mind immediately.

You have single handedly revived the thread (well, not really single handedly, I played a big part also) and I really needed that.

Now, I need the other guy to ask his question. He is dying to do it, Joe. He wants more than anything to ask that question (both of 'em, actually) because he thinks that when I answer, he is going to have me by the short hairs.

But, first, he has got to ask it.

Without your help, the thread might have died...and the chances of the question being asked might have died with it.

You are my hero! I love ya, Buddy.
joefromchicago
 
  2  
Mon 21 May, 2012 04:35 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
Joe, I just love the fact that you think I am upset. That is adorable.

This is why you're such a sweetie -- you're obviously angry, but you deny it because you think it will affect my feelings! That's so like you -- always thinking of others first.

Frank Apisa wrote:
Keep this under yer bonnet, Joe, but some of these guys were actually freezing me out. They would not post. I needed someone to get this thread going again.

Clearly, they don't understand, like I do, that your patently obvious evasions are, in fact, attempts at being "helpful." Someday they'll know better. But until that day dawns, I'll be right there for you. You can count on it!

Frank Apisa wrote:
I gotta admit, I did not think it would be you. In fact, I never woulda thunk it. But here you are for me...and I will not forget this. Some day, I am going to see you being frozen out...and I am going to be there for ya, Joe.

You're a true prince among men, didja' know that? Of course, I can't imagine that I'd ever give anyone cause to "freeze me out" as you've done on this thread, but it's good to know that you have my back.

Frank Apisa wrote:
Now, I need the other guy to ask his question. He is dying to do it, Joe. He wants more than anything to ask that question (both of 'em, actually) because he thinks that when I answer, he is going to have me by the short hairs.

Aw, that's so adorable. You don't even realize that you've been yanked around by your short hairs since this thread began. Always the brave face, that's the spirit!
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Mon 21 May, 2012 05:06 pm
@joefromchicago,
Joe, YOU are sounding angry...and I really don't want that to happen.

You've saved the thread...and I appreciate it.

Not sure why you are so anxious to get into some of the stuff you are raising, but I will leave it at "Thank you" for your help. If you hadn't come along, I'da had to invent someone like you.
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Mon 21 May, 2012 05:38 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

Joe, YOU are sounding angry...and I really don't want that to happen.

Whoa there, big fella! I know you're upset, but there's no need to be so hostile. Deep cleansing breathes, my friend, deep cleansing breathes.

Frank Apisa wrote:
You've saved the thread...and I appreciate it.

I'd love to take the credit -- and you're a sweetheart to suggest that I deserve it -- but we both know that the only thing keeping this thread alive is your insatiable egotism. After all, that's what got the thread started in the first place.

Frank Apisa wrote:
If you hadn't come along, I'da had to invent someone like you.

You already have. His name is "Frank Apisa."
 

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