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I do not believe gods exist…but I do not believe there are no gods.

Forums: Religion, Word Salad, Logic, Apisa Match, Not Atheism
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ossobuco
 
  6  
Sat 19 May, 2012 05:58 pm
Frank, you must be kidding. You have instigated many discussions on this same bit of business - it's sometimes within threads, sometimes started by you. You go on about it forever.


You keep wanting to jelly roll.
Last thing I want to answer is your 94th question or 194th.


******* relax. None of us care if you are agnostic. You post like a fourteen year old.


Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Sat 19 May, 2012 06:32 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
Frank I am cool with you not wanting to be called an atheist and if it means that much to you I will start considering you to be a non-theist.


Thank you, RL.

Quote:
I am not the one who has started a polemic style thread to express my view about the word "atheist" with others Frank.


Anything said about atheists or atheism that has any negative aspects to it at all was started by others. The purpose of this thread was not to discuss atheism...but to discuss the unusual nature of the title.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Sat 19 May, 2012 06:32 pm
@ossobuco,
Quote:
Frank, you must be kidding. You have instigated many discussions on this same bit of business - it's sometimes within threads, sometimes started by you. You go on about it forever.


You keep wanting to jelly roll.
Last thing I want to answer is your 94th question or 194th.


******* relax. None of us care if you are agnostic. You post like a fourteen year old.


Sorry you feel that way.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  4  
Sat 19 May, 2012 07:22 pm
@failures art,
Since you intend to use the definitions you posted,

1) Are they sufficient definitions if they only address monotheism? i.e. - "God, deity, or supreme being" versus "gods, deities, or supreme beings"

And don't say a ******* word about how it's not my question.
Just answer it.
Joe(go)Nation
IRFRANK
 
  1  
Sat 19 May, 2012 08:27 pm
@Frank Apisa,
The same Frank?

Certainly not. We agree more than disagree though.
Plus, I haven't grown any grey hair lately. At least not on top of my head.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Sun 20 May, 2012 12:35 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

I do not believe gods exist...says that on my list of things that I "believe"...there are no gods. It does not say that I believe no gods exist. It is simply stating an absence of a belief that gods exist.

I also do not believe there are no gods. On my list of things that I "believe"...you will not find "that there are no gods." All I am saying is that there is an absence of a belief that there are no gods.

It is perfectly logical, Finn.

If you can see it, fine. If you cannot...I cannot help you unless you ask for further explanation.


It's surprising this thread has so many pages and so perhaps there's something to what you are saying that I just don't get.

If I don't believe Obama is a good president then that pretty much equates to a belief that he is not a good president.

I guess I understand the distinction you are trying to draw, but have to wonder why you place such a premium on being able to say you don't have a belief.

You don't believe God exists.

Fine and dandy but whether you term this a belief or the absence of a belief, I fail to see what difference it makes.

How does your absence of a belief that there are no gods, distinquish your not believing in God from believing God doesn't exist?

If you've already addressed this in other responses, forgive me.

Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Sun 20 May, 2012 01:28 am
@IRFRANK,
Quote:
The same Frank?

Certainly not. We agree more than disagree though.
Plus, I haven't grown any grey hair lately. At least not on top of my head.


Yeah, that comment by Farmerman came out of nowhere. But Set may be correct that he was just try to yank chains.

Looks as though you might have less facial hair also!
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sun 20 May, 2012 01:35 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
It's surprising this thread has so many pages and so perhaps there's something to what you are saying that I just don't get.


I was just trying to do a thread with an interesting premise.


Quote:
If I don't believe Obama is a good president then that pretty much equates to a belief that he is not a good president.


Could be. But the fact is that I do not believe there are gods...and I do not believe there are no gods. I just do not have beliefs on the issue.

Quote:
I guess I understand the distinction you are trying to draw, but have to wonder why you place such a premium on being able to say you don't have a belief.


Well, since I have mentioned often that I consider beliefs (in this area) to be blind guesses--I am happy that I do not make blind guesses about stuff like this.

Quote:
You don't believe God exists.


I agree with that.

Quote:
Fine and dandy but whether you term this a belief or the absence of a belief, I fail to see what difference it makes.


It does, but I have explained it so many times in this thread, excuse me for not wanting to do so again.

Quote:
How does your absence of a belief that there are no gods, distinquish your not believing in God from believing God doesn't exist?


I do not understand this question, but here is a restatement of my position:

I do not believe in GOD or gods. (I have an absence of belief in GOD or gods.)

I do not believe there are no gods. (I have an absence of beliefs that gods do not exist.)

I simply do not believe in either direction.

Quote:
If you've already addressed this in other responses, forgive me.


No problem, it is a long thread.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  2  
Sun 20 May, 2012 11:29 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
The purpose of this thread was not to discuss atheism...but to discuss the unusual nature of the title.


This is nothing unusual for you Frank but you are probably correct about it being unusual for many others.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sun 20 May, 2012 11:48 am
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
This is nothing unusual for you Frank but you are probably correct about it being unusual for many others.


Just got out of work. Course was filled with people...and I never got a moment to look in on the thread. Worked my butt off.

Glad you stopped by, RL.

I understand that you do not think the thread is unusual for me but that most likely it is unusual for others.

I gotta tell you, though, this thread definitely IS unusual for me. In fact, it is one for the ages as far as I am concerned. I will not forget this one for a long time.

reasoning logic
 
  1  
Sun 20 May, 2012 12:09 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
I gotta tell you, though, this thread definitely IS unusual for me. In fact, it is one for the ages as far as I am concerned. I will not forget this one for a long time.


OK Frank I'll bite the hook, What is it that you find unusually different about this thread, that you do not find on others, that you have brought up your philosophy about not believing in gods and not believing there are no gods?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sun 20 May, 2012 01:34 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
OK Frank I'll bite the hook, What is it that you find unusually different about this thread, that you do not find on others, that you have brought up your philosophy about not believing in gods and not believing there are no gods?


I wasn't looking for you to "bite," RL. Why do you have to conceive of it that way? I was simply telling you how I felt about the thread.

Essentially, in this thread I mentioned that I do not believe gods exist. I have mentioned that many times before, and I've never had a heated reaction to it. In fact, many atheists have mentioned that they too do not believe gods exist." But there was no surprise or consternation with me expressing that sentiment. In fact, many have gone out of their way to indicate boredom with it, often writing things like, "YES, Frank, we know you do not believe gods exist. You have mentioned that time after time after time. We are tired of hearing it. We know you do not believe gods exist. Big deal!"

I also mentioned in this thread that I do not believe there are no gods—that I do not believe gods do not exist. I do not ever remember a reaction that I would consider heated to that. I remember many occasions where atheists have said that they DO believe there are no gods, but I honestly do not remember any time when atheists (or non-atheists) got in a pet over it. For the most part, they accepted that I do not believe there are no gods. Some have gone out have gone out of their way to indicate boredom with my comment, writing things like, "YES, Frank, we know you do not believe there are no gods. You have mentioned that time after time after time. We are tired of it. We know you do not believe there are no gods. Big deal!"


Now here, I mentioned both items together...and people have gone absolutely ape over it...telling me that it is absurd for me to be of both those minds. They've written that it is “inconsistent,” “illogical,” “bizarre,” that “it makes no sense,” and all sorts of other heated negative comments about it. Read the comments. As Casey Stengel would say, "You could look it up!"

So the thread is unusual for me…and is a thread that I will consider “one for the ages.”
reasoning logic
 
  3  
Sun 20 May, 2012 02:17 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
So the thread is unusual for me…and is a thread that I will consider “one for the ages.”


I enjoyed it myself, It is not very often that I get to see an intelligent man defend such bizarre positions. Laughing
izzythepush
 
  0  
Sun 20 May, 2012 02:22 pm
@reasoning logic,
Hey RL, did you know York City won the conference play-offs today, and they're back in the football league.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Sun 20 May, 2012 02:25 pm
@izzythepush,
No I did not but I do now. Did it bring back old memories?
izzythepush
 
  0  
Sun 20 May, 2012 02:41 pm
@reasoning logic,
Southampton have always been in the League, well for as long as I've supported them anyway. Most of the time they've been in the top flight, and they're back there now.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Sun 20 May, 2012 03:42 pm
@izzythepush,
I am glad your team is winning Izzy
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Sun 20 May, 2012 03:44 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank I thought that you may like this it appears that Dawkins shares some of your ideas and some of mine.

0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  0  
Sun 20 May, 2012 04:29 pm
@Joe Nation,
Joe, it's not going to happen. The question is of irrelevance if Frank cannot make me jump through a hoop. I do a trick, and he rewards me with an answer. We're all so lucky if he decides to bless us with a reply.

To Frank, I'm a pet that doesn't get a treat unless I do the trick.

A
R
T
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sun 20 May, 2012 05:22 pm
@izzythepush,
Listening to all you Brits talking about British football is always a great pleasure for me. It was a big part of my life for two years.

I've never actually been addicted to betting, but I do like to bet from time to time...and I certainly like American Poker.

But my all-time favorite betting was British Football Pools. The pools were a full-time affair for all American servicemen stationed in England. We had a group who used to play rather large permutation tickets each week...and whenever I play one of our state lotteries (something I very, very seldom do) I think back on how much fun it was to do the Pools.

I think we could work something out here in America during our "football" season, perhaps using 1st quarter, halftime, and 3rd quarter scores.

I would love it. I am assuming the Pools are still in play...and that they are as popular as they were when I lived there back in the mid 1950's?
 

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