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What is your justification for disbelieving in the supernatural?

 
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2012 05:14 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
How does "I disbelieve in gods" differ from "I believe there are no gods?"

How does it differ from "I am not saying I believe there are no gods, I just do not believe in gods?"

As a matter of language, it can mean both.

As it happens, however, I believe there are no gods. Also, I believe there are no ghosts, there are no unicorns, that nobody can bend spoons with psychic powers alone, or any of that. I believe that all tales of supernatural events I have heard so far are false.

Bet you didn't know that about me, didya.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2012 05:18 am
@Thomas,
Thomas...love ya, Buddy, but how can it mean both?

The two things "I believe there are no gods" and "I am not saying I believe there are no gods, I just do not believe in gods?" mean significantly different things.

"I believe there are no gods" and "I do not believe in gods" are NOT the same thing.

I am trying to figure out which it is closer to.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2012 05:22 am
@Thomas,
Quote:
I believe there are no gods. Also, I believe there are no ghosts, there are no unicorns, that nobody can bend spoons with psychic powers alone.


I’ve known you for a long time and would never take you for a believer. Goes to show ya!
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2012 05:57 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
Thomas...love ya, Buddy, but how can it mean both?

Because the English language is too ambiguous to satisfy your craving for consistence and logic. Don't take it up with me, take it up with Mr. Webster. He invented the language.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2012 01:32 pm
@Thomas,
Since you are willing to stay involved in this, Thomas, would you be so kind as to answer the two questions I actually asked:

How does "I disbelieve in gods" differ from "I believe there are no gods?"

How does it differ from "I am not saying I believe there are no gods, I just do not believe in gods?"


Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2012 02:01 pm
@Frank Apisa,
It is a superset of both statements. It differs from each in that its meaning includes the other statement as well.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2012 04:02 pm
@Thomas,
Quote:
It is a superset of both statements. It differs from each in that its meaning includes the other statement as well.


Are you yanking my chain?
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2012 04:24 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I disbelieve in gods is a statement based on what the individual perceives to be his knowledge about god with the current knowledge one has. It speaks to current knowledge which might change with future knowledge. I believe there are no gods is a conclusive statement about any possibility of a god.
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2012 04:46 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
Are you yanking my chain?

That would be a most welcome fringe benefit, but it isn't my intent. The sentence "I disbelieve in the supernatural", if true, merely informs you that the sentence "I believe in the supernatural" is false. No more, no less. I understand that you want the former sentence to tell you how the latter is false. But it doesn't. If somebody tells you "I disbelieve in the supernatural", she might be agnostic about supernatural things, or she might actively believe that supernatural things don't exist. You simply cannot tell by the sentence "I disbelieve" alone.

Don't like it? Tough titties. Take it up with Mr. Webster.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2012 07:41 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
I disbelieve in gods is a statement based on what the individual perceives to be his knowledge about god with the current knowledge one has. It speaks to current knowledge which might change with future knowledge. I believe there are no gods is a conclusive statement about any possibility of a god.


Thank you for that information, ci.

I wonder if you would answer my questions also. There are two of them...I've stated them up above.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2012 07:42 pm
@Thomas,
Quote:
That would be a most welcome fringe benefit, but it isn't my intent. The sentence "I disbelieve in the supernatural", if true, merely informs you that the sentence "I believe in the supernatural" is false. No more, no less. I understand that you want the former sentence to tell you how the latter is false. But it doesn't. If somebody tells you "I disbelieve in the supernatural", she might be agnostic about supernatural things, or she might actively believe that supernatural things don't exist. You simply cannot tell by the sentence "I disbelieve" alone.

Don't like it? Tough titties. Take it up with Mr. Webster.


I'd also be interested in your answer to the two questions I asked, Thomas.
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2012 07:44 pm
@Frank Apisa,
You already have my answer. Whether you like it or not is your problem, not mine.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2012 08:07 pm
@Frank Apisa,
You're putting me into the same position with Thomas. I did answer your question which you refuse to acknowledge. My answer is the same as Thomas'; not my problem.
0 Replies
 
 

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