Why does the Universe exist?

@dalehileman,

dalehileman wrote:

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the existence of the Universe has nothing to do with thought

Well North I’m not so sure I agree, depending on how you define “thought”

http://able2know.org/topic/196343-1

how ever you define " thought " whether without or with god is irrelevant , really

the Universe doen't care

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@north,

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the Universe doen't care

It certainly seems that way but on the other hand doesn’t the apparent “order” intuitively suggest a “plan” which in turn might entail a sort of “thought"

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@dalehileman,

Not all facets of the almost infintely complex and variegated universe care, but if I do, at least this aspect of the universe cares. Why do we tend to think of the universe/cosmos/Reality as OTHER than us? It includes you and me.

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@JLNobody,

Even then, all of us are temporary visitors.

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@JLNobody,

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Why do we tend to think of the universe/cosmos/Reality as OTHER than us?

Only JL to the extent that intuition insists the entire operation seems a pointless random exercise without us and therefore we must have a special place in it

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@dalehileman,

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@dalehileman,

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Why do we tend to think of the universe/cosmos/Reality as OTHER than us?

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Only JL to the extent that intuition insists the entire operation seems a pointless random exercise without us and therefore we must have a special place in it

dal

the whole point of the Universe IS to be random , without the randomness of the Universe , the Universe would have been locked into a stalemate long ago

inotherwords , it is the randomness of the Universe which creates things and life , everywhere in the Universe , don't you see ?

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@north,

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it is the randomness of the Universe which creates things and life , everywhere in the Universe , don't you see ?

No, to the contrary it sees everything was adjusted—in some cases within a fraction of one percent—to make us possible

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@dalehileman,

dalehileman wrote:

No, to the contrary it sees everything was adjusted—in some cases within a fraction of one percent—to make us possible

The word "adjusted" suggests that there was a conscious motivation behind it. No. I think this whole "fine tuning" garbage is nonsense. We have no idea if it could have occurred any other way than it did. You could suggest that it could but without another example it is pure speculation. Not only that but the universe itself isn't tuned for life even. 99% of it is hostile to life so it's not very fine tuned for life at all.

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@Krumple,

dalehileman wrote:
No, to the contrary it sees everything was adjusted—in some cases within a fraction of one percent—to make us possible

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The word "adjusted" suggests that there was a conscious motivation behind it.

Not conscious in the conventional view of a God who comes floating down in a white robe with index finger extended but in a more abstract pantheistic sense where the Universe is Her body and all the activity therein Her mind at work

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No. I think this whole "fine tuning" garbage is nonsense.

I’d agree the conventional concept isn’t intellectually acceptable. However I think it might have been doctored down to that form by thinkers who realized the hoi polloi simply wouldn't understand the more abstract view

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We have no idea if it could have occurred any other way than it did.

But we do have an idea, at least some of us. In fact we maintain that it couldn’t; while there’s mounting scientific evidence suggesting this very conclusion

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You could suggest that it could but without another example it is pure speculation.

Quite so

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Not only that but the universe itself isn't tuned for life even.

To the contrary, intuitively persuasive, it seems to have been organized specifically to permit evolution. If a lot of the Megillah seems hostile it’s because it couldn’t have been done it any other way. In other words She can do only what’s possible

Seems there’s more to it all than with the dreary prospect of a single temporary, meaningless, and hopelessly random series of interactions ending with huge numbers of cold objects and particles mutually accelerating apart into infinity forever

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Why does the universe exist? Why not?

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@JLNobody,

Because nothingness is a concept easier to accept

That doesn’t mean that it won’t eventually be shown that existence is a necessary state of affairs, that things are the way they are because that’s how they have to be. However there lingers an intuitive suggestion that however abstract it might prove there’s more to it than the mere fortuitous deflection and conversion of particles and energy

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@JLNobody,

Body

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@dalehileman,

No.

I sometimes feel that nothingness or emptiness is to be felt rather than to be understood in the conceptual sense

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@JLNobody,

bc in truth nothingness cant b conceived since it is the lowest fact possible as an absolute thing existence issue

the issue is always freedom rights out of absolute objective facts being true

but when u mean that nothingness is u as objective thing u should b humiliated from that paradoxe pretense, showing how u cant have a freedom right as u r an animal forever

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@dalehileman,

dalehileman wrote:

Because nothingness is a concept easier to accept

That doesn’t mean that it won’t eventually be shown that existence is a necessary state of affairs, that things are the way they are because that’s how they have to be. However there lingers an intuitive suggestion that however abstract it might prove there’s more to it than the mere fortuitous deflection and conversion of particles and energy

Here is the problem. I think most peoples perspectives are imbalanced because they are made up of matter and they are surrounded by a lot of matter. But the fact is if you were to take all the matter in the universe and clump it all together it would make up less than 0.01% of the universe. In other words the matter of the universe is really just left over residue from some insignificant event. The universe IS nothingness.

The reason we focus so much on matter is because it is what we are made of and we think ourselves important. But when it comes right down to it, matter doesn't really matter in the universe.

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@Krumple,

not only bc of that, who think being of matter wont talk of matters importance, it cant be out of it to talk about it talk about smthg else

truth of that issue is evil, that insistant existence will to b limited value by ignoring unlimted values being existence facts rights at any objective sight

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@JLNobody,

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to be felt rather than to be understood in the conceptual sense

A subject open to debate JL depending on one’s interpretation. Certainly nothingness can’t be pictured in the mind’s eye, it can only be posited or proposed as an alternative to what we have now, the Megillah so difficult to account for

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@Krumple,

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Here is the problem. I think most peoples perspectives are imbalanced because they are made up of matter.......

Our limitations Krump do interfere in our speculations

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.....all the matter.......less than 0.01% of the universe.....just left over residue......The universe IS nothingness.

Disagree most emphatically. What you call nothingness is space, very real

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The reason we focus so much on matter is because it is what we are made of and we think ourselves important.......matter doesn't really matter.....

Of course the typical humanoid considers himself unique and important. However there’s an intuitive suggestion that he could be right: Without him the Entire Megillah seems a silly random, meaningless interaction of particles and waves destined to conclude in hopeless cold disarray

While everything that we imagine might have been created in some other way seems to inspire the notion—forgive me if I seem repetitious--that the Whole Panoply was “adjusted,” in some cases within a fraction of one percent, specifically to permit our evolvement

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@imans,

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not only bc of that, ...... about smthg else......that insistant existence........ being existence facts rights......

Forgive me Im, and thank you for your attempt to respond, but certain apparent limitations in expression strongly suggest you might implore another interested participant to summarize for the benefit of The Average Clod (me) your position in more nearly everyday English

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Why does the Universe exist?

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