0
   

God and reality v abstraction

 
 
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2012 10:41 am
As an apodictical existential pantheist I offer a view of God which might at least partially satisfy both skeptic and devout if not bring them together in intellectual embrace. What do California, Mother Love, Costco, Naziism, and God have in common and in fact to what degree can we assert that any of them even exists

http://able2know.org/topic/196336-1#post-5081763

It’s clear that according to the general rule that nothing is entirely anything while everything is partly something else, there’s no clear dividing line separating reality (say, a rock) from the abstract (say, mother love). Any idea for instance seems pretty abstract though it evidently entails a concrete brain. At least the casual a2k participant might consider mine as concrete

Even though we think of it in corporeal terms Costco constitutes an ill-defined groupings of mumbling humanoids pushing keys and moving objects from one place to another. Ill-defined for instance in what sorts of creatures are involved; whether its membership for instance part of it

In the same vein Naziism was an arbitrary grouping of anthropoids in similar dressage fielding a black symbol on red cloth depriving another organism of its life based on a vaguely supposed difference in its genealogy whilst making loud guttural sounds with one limb outstretched toward a physically atypical specimen in sagging uniform

Thus according to the pantheist—my No. 2 Son and I in particular—if you equate the above entities with substance, then God is indeed very real, considering for instance the physical Universe as Her body and all the activity as the workings of Her mind

She is Christ as well as Hitler

Think of yourself as one of Her brain cells

That’s not to say by any means that we have all the answers; persisting an intuitional notion for instance that without us the entire Megillah seems a random and pointless bouncing of objects off one another; while still shrouded in inscrutability the mechanism by which the physical constants seem to have been adjusted—in some cases within a fraction of one percent--to permit our evolution

So yes my canonical brethren, I’ll readily concede there’s still something mysterious about it all
  • Topic Stats
  • Top Replies
  • Link to this Topic
Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 2,161 • Replies: 22
No top replies

 
Rickoshay75
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2012 12:09 pm
@dalehileman,
dalehileman wrote:

As an apodictical existential pantheist I offer a view of God which might at least partially satisfy both skeptic and devout if not bring them together in intellectual embrace. What do California, Mother Love, Costco, Naziism, and God have in common and in fact to what degree can we assert that any of them even exists

http://able2know.org/topic/196336-1#post-5081763

It’s clear that according to the general rule that nothing is entirely anything while everything is partly something else, there’s no clear dividing line separating reality (say, a rock) from the abstract (say, mother love). Any idea for instance seems pretty abstract though it evidently entails a concrete brain. At least the casual a2k participant might consider mine as concrete

Even though we think of it in corporeal terms Costco constitutes an ill-defined groupings of mumbling humanoids pushing keys and moving objects from one place to another. Ill-defined for instance in what sorts of creatures are involved; whether its membership for instance part of it

In the same vein Naziism was an arbitrary grouping of anthropoids in similar dressage fielding a black symbol on red cloth depriving another organism of its life based on a vaguely supposed difference in its genealogy whilst making loud guttural sounds with one limb outstretched toward a physically atypical specimen in sagging uniform

Thus according to the pantheist—my No. 2 Son and I in particular—if you equate the above entities with substance, then God is indeed very real, considering for instance the physical Universe as Her body and all the activity as the workings of Her mind

She is Christ as well as Hitler

Think of yourself as one of Her brain cells

That’s not to say by any means that we have all the answers; persisting an intuitional notion for instance that without us the entire Megillah seems a random and pointless bouncing of objects off one another; while still shrouded in inscrutability the mechanism by which the physical constants seem to have been adjusted—in some cases within a fraction of one percent--to permit our evolution

So yes my canonical brethren, I’ll readily concede there’s still something mysterious about it all



Religion is all about need, whether you have the confidence to run your life or not, and how well you adapt to new situations.

You are a child of the universe
no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
Therefore, be at peace with God,
whatever you conceive Him to be.

Max Ehrmann, Desiderata: A Poem for a Way of Life

http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/177071.Max_Ehrmann
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2012 12:16 pm
Many humans live with and without religion, and that's the way it should be. The problem with this conclusion is simply that religion is an accident of birth, and many do not have the choice when born.

Most believe in their god to be the only god, and they live out their lives thinking they have the answer.

Not true.
Rickoshay75
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2012 12:51 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Many humans live with and without religion, and that's the way it should be.



Only if they live and die in an isolated place with no other people to influence them -- no TV, no cell phones, no radio, and no outside education, somewhat like the world Tarzan lived in.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2012 01:28 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Many humans live with and without religion, and that's the way it should be. The problem with this conclusion is simply that religion is an accident of birth, and many do not have the choice when born.

Most believe in their god to be the only god, and they live out their lives thinking they have the answer.

Not true.


You are absolutely positive it is not true, ci?

You are making an assertion that people who "believe" in a GOD...and who "believe" the GOD is the only GOD...must be mistaken.

Do you have any evidence to back up that assertion? Or is it just a guess on your part?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2012 02:34 pm
@Frank Apisa,
It's an easy observable fact if you open your brains. What religion do you think most Italians follow? How about South Americans? How about Hindus and Muslims. Do you still have a clue?
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2012 02:45 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Redirect: concrete v abstract in establishing existence of entity. Can the abstract quality of a finite, necessary and perfectly natural phenom presumably existing forever qualify as God

Or is the Universe nothing more than the aimless senseless interaction of matter and radiation, we mere accidents of no significance
thack45
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2012 02:55 pm
oh god.

 http://blog.sundancenow.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/ohgod1-150x150.jpg

not you old man. this again...

I do not believe gods exist…but I do not believe there are no gods.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2012 03:27 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
It's an easy observable fact if you open your brains. What religion do you think most Italians follow? How about South Americans? How about Hindus and Muslims. Do you still have a clue?


It is NOT an easy observable fact, ci. You have no idea if these people are wrong. All you have is your prejudice on the matter.

Catholics may be correct about the god they worship.

Hindus may be correct about the gods they worship.

There is no way you can know that they are mistaken...so why don't you simply acknowledge that you do not know.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2012 03:28 pm
@dalehileman,
I honestly do not understand your question, Dale. If you make it clear to me, I will gladly respond.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2012 03:30 pm
@thack45,
Thack:

There are people who "believe gods exist."

I am not one of them.

I do not believe gods exist.

There are people who "believe there are no gods."

I am not one of them.

I do not believe there are no gods.

There is absolutely nothing inconsistent about my comment: I do not believe gods exist…but I do not believe there are no gods.

If you cannot understand that, I am sorry...but it is totally logical and is not inconsistent in any way.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2012 03:49 pm
@Frank Apisa,
You just want it both ways, and FYI it's not logical.

When you can say you believe "x" something exists, and believe that "x" something doesn't exist, that's not logical. Your wording doesn't change the logic.
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2012 04:07 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
If you make it clear to me, I will gladly respond.
Do you suppose Frank that God might be a perfectly abstract but natural concept which can properly be said to exist if the same can be said for so many earthly yet abstract phenomena

By “natural” I mean not supernatural if by the latter is meant impossible

Perhaps Frank if you review the OP you might more exactly express the nexus of your uncertainty

Though I’ll be first to accede my thinking at 81 with incipient Alz's might be relatively hazy and imperfectly worded. Another way of expressing it: is it possible that Her existence or non- might be a purely semantic issue
thack45
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2012 04:14 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Just havin' a little fun. Don't pay me no nevermind.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2012 04:44 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
You just want it both ways, and FYI it's not logical.


I do not want it both ways...and it is logical. Sorry you are unable to see that it is.

Quote:
When you can say you believe "x" something exists, and believe that "x" something doesn't exist, that's not logical. Your wording doesn't change the logic.


Actually, that is called a strawman...since I never said anything of the kind.

I said I do not believe there are no gods...and I do not believe there are gods.

I do not have a belief in either direction.

I do not want it both ways...I am simply stating that I do not want it either way. At least not in the "belief" sense.

Open your mind, ci. It won't hurt. And maybe you will let a bit of light in.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2012 04:45 pm
@thack45,
No problem, Thack. Gave me a chance to explain things to ci one more time.
0 Replies
 
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2012 04:46 pm
@dalehileman,
I do find it remarkable how militant the many skeptics as if from a kind of subconscious turmoil
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2012 05:28 pm
@Frank Apisa,
You wrote,
Quote:
I said I do not believe there are no gods...and I do not believe there are gods.


It's the same as "I said I do not believe there are no "x's"...and I do not believe there are "x's."

Put another way: "I said I do not believe there are no easter bunnies.....and I do not believe there are easter bunnies."

Now, take out the "not."

"I do believe there are no easter bunnies....and I do believe there are easter bunnies."
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2012 06:14 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
It's the same as "I said I do not believe there are no "x's"...and I do not believe there are "x's."

Put another way: "I said I do not believe there are no easter bunnies.....and I do not believe there are easter bunnies."

Now, take out the "not."

"I do believe there are no easter bunnies....and I do believe there are easter bunnies."


ci, you are a gas. One hell of a funny guy. I love ya.

When I say, "I do not believe there are gods"....it means just that. I do not have a belief that there are gods. Some people do. I do not.

When I say, "I do not believe there are no gods"...it means just that. I do not have a belief that there are no gods. Some people do. I do not.

You can do all that funny x's and o's thing all you want, but you cannot change that.

Just acknowledge it.

By the way...apparently you believe there are no gods. That makes you a believer.

Me...I am not a believer.

You are a believer, because you believe there are no gods.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2012 07:14 pm
@Frank Apisa,
You're a mixed up "believer." You believe there are no gods, and also believe there might be a god.
 

Related Topics

Nature of gun laws - Discussion by gungasnake
Reality - thing or phenomenon? - Question by Cyracuz
Atheism - Discussion by littlek
Is Reality a Social Construction ? - Discussion by fresco
Do you See what Eye See?? - Discussion by NoName77
 
  1. Forums
  2. » God and reality v abstraction
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 04/03/2025 at 01:02:04