45
   

Do you think Zimmerman will be convicted of murder?

 
 
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Wed 27 Jun, 2012 10:16 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
People are arguing for a standard of "guilty until proven innocent".

Because that is exactly the standard when someone claims self defense. Their guilt is not in question; the question is whether they can convince a jury that their actions were justified.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 27 Jun, 2012 10:27 pm
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:


Because that is exactly the standard when someone claims self defense. Their guilt is not in question; the question is whether they can convince a jury that their actions were justified.


Quote:
guilt   
noun
1.
the fact or state of having committed an offense, crime, violation, or wrong, especially against moral or penal law; culpability: He admitted his guilt.
2.
a feeling of responsibility or remorse for some offense, crime, wrong, etc., whether real or imagined.
3.
conduct involving the commission of such crimes, wrongs, etc.: to live a life of guilt.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/guilt

Zimmermans guilt is very much in question, because to date we dont know that he did anything legally wrong. Whether he did anything morally wrong I suspect is in the eye of the beholder. Cute how you twist the definition of "guilt" so that you can claim that he is guilty.
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Wed 27 Jun, 2012 10:30 pm
@hawkeye10,
Feel free to play your word games; the fact is, Zimmerman shot the kid, and he admits that he shot the kid.
gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Wed 27 Jun, 2012 10:44 pm
This whole thing is not about guilt or innocence, we have the opinion of one of America's foremost legal experts that the prosecution has no case at all.

This is about:

  • A quasi-trained MMA fighter whose mind was blasted on "purple drank" trying to kill a guy with no combat training.
  • The victim saving his own life and likely the lives of other people with a small pistol.
  • A rogue political party legitimizing a pair of race-hustling criminals by the names of Jackson and Sharpton.
  • An open threat of large numbers of brainwashed and ignorant people rioting and demanding a human sacrifice not to riot.
  • A desperate rogue-party president claiming that if he had a son, the son would look like an asshole, i.e. like the purple-dranked-out former MMA artist.
  • A rogue prosecutor and judge insisting on holding the victim in prison prior to trial for no rational reason and in fact seeking to force him to cop a plea to bullshit charges by threatening his wife with prison over more bullshit occasioned by themselves.


It's also about the basic idea of equality in our society and the question of whether or not we now have special/protected groups of people who are legally untouchable to the extent that the rest of us can't even defend ourselves when one of them goes crazy on drugs and tries to kill us.

All I can say is that these wretched mother fuckers had best make awfully God damned certain that nothing untoward happens to George Zimmeron while he's waiting trial in their stupid ******* prison.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Wed 27 Jun, 2012 10:50 pm
@gungasnake,
Quote:
It's also about the basic idea of equality in our society and the question of whether or not we now have special/protected groups of people who are legally untouchable to the extent that the rest of us can't even defend ourselves when one of them goes crazy on drugs and tries to kill us


You are close...what the prosecution of Zimmerman shows is the corruption of the justice system which inevitably takes place when the DA's office is a political one. Right now the stewards of our justice system are trying to serve two masters, the mob and justice. They should be serving justice only.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Wed 27 Jun, 2012 10:54 pm
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

Feel free to play your word games; the fact is, Zimmerman shot the kid, and he admits that he shot the kid.


Right, and now we decide if it was a good shoot. Do you call the cops or our soldiers guilty every time they kill someone?? You sir are the one playing word games, by purposefully using words inappropriately as you attempt to further your argument by way of deceit.
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Jun, 2012 11:15 pm
@hawkeye10,
Can't really tell how much of this anybody may have absorbed by now...

http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/06/what_the_media_choose_not_to_know_about_trayvon.html

Quote:

....According to the autopsy report, Trayvon was 5'11" tall and weighed 158 pounds, the "ideal healthy weight" at that height being 160 pounds. He was not the skinny little boy with the Skittles that half of America still believes him to be. He was at least three inches taller than Zimmerman and only about 20 pounds lighter.

His home life a wreck, his school life in disarray, Trayvon had fallen victim to urban America's lost boy culture.

This culture, which the media also choose not to see, has been shockingly destructive. Citing Bureau of Justice statistics, black economist Walter Williams in a recent column notes that "between 1976 and 2011, there were 279,384 black murder victims." Of these, Williams estimates that roughly "262,621 were murdered by other blacks."

Trayvon had "statistic" written all over him. In the past year or so, his social media sites showed a growing interest in drugs, in mixed martial arts-style street fighting, in a profoundly vulgar exploitation of "bitches."

Trayvon posed for one photo with raised middle fingers, another with wads of cash held in an out-stretched arm. One YouTube video shows him refereeing a fight club-style street fight. A cousin had recently tweeted him, "Yu ain't tell me yu swung on a bus driver," meaning, if true, that Trayvon had punched out a bus driver.

Zimmerman never saw the cute little boy that the TV audience did. He saw a full-grown man, a druggy, a wannabe street fighter, the tattooed, gold-grilled, self-dubbed "No_Limit_Nigga."

Media obfuscation may still work in the court of public opinion -- it got Obama elected in 2008 -- but it will not work in a court of law. The truth will out. When it does, the major media will lose a good chunk of whatever credibility they have left, and our nation may lose a good chunk of its urban real estate.....
tenderfoot
 
  6  
Reply Wed 27 Jun, 2012 11:39 pm
@gungasnake,
Racist.
gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Thu 28 Jun, 2012 06:33 am
@tenderfoot,
Congratulations, you're on ignore.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Thu 28 Jun, 2012 06:39 am
For anybody who might have missed it, here's a case of a poor black family discovering that even being black doesn't help anything (as far as justice) when the DemoKKKrat party has some OTHER group in their sights for designated-victim/voting-block status:

http://able2know.org/topic/192722-1

http://standwitharizona.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/robinson1-300x209.png

Again the problem in the picture is gangsterism, not race.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  4  
Reply Thu 28 Jun, 2012 06:49 am
@hawkeye10,
I'm guilty of thinking you're an idiot for tilting at this particular windmill.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jun, 2012 07:54 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Do you call the cops or our soldiers guilty every time they kill someone??

Not every time. But, when there are questions about whether those killings were lawful or justified, the individuals in question are also held answerable.

But, why are you comparing police officers or soldiers to a civilian who, motivated by nothing other than his own questionable perception of "suspicious behavior", follows, confronts, and then shoots and kills, an unarmed minor on a residential street?

The night of the shooting, and in the days afterward, the police found inconsistencies and credibility problems with Zimmerman's account of events. The unanswered questions about the lawfulness of this shooting death were there long before there was a public outcry about this case, and the lead police investigator had wanted Zimmerman arrested and criminally charged.

Zimmerman admits he shot and killed Trayvon Martin. Now it must be determined whether that was a lawful and legally justified act in the state of Florida. And that will be determined, not in this thread, but in a court, on the basis of all the relevant evidence.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jun, 2012 10:28 am
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2120504/Trayvon-Martin-case-He-suspended-times-caught-burglary-tool.html

Quote:

Trayvon suspended THREE times for 'drugs, truancy, graffiti and carrying burglary tool' and did he attack bus driver too? New picture emerges of victim as parents claim it's all a smear

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2120504/Trayvon-Martin-case-He-suspended-times-caught-burglary-tool.html#ixzz1z6d90gC0


Quote:
The Miami Herald claims that in October, he was caught with a 'burglary tool' - a flathead screwdriver - and 12 pieces of women's jewellery. Martin insisted that they did not belong to him.


The kid was actually telling the truth that time, the jewellery items clearly belonged to the women he'd stolen them from.....
firefly
 
  4  
Reply Thu 28 Jun, 2012 10:41 am
@gungasnake,
Of course none of that is at all relevant to the issue of whether George Zimmerman was legally justified in shooting and killing Trayvon Martin.

The actual evidence in this case must be too difficult for you to comprehend and consider.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 28 Jun, 2012 03:47 pm
@gungasnake,
gungasnake wrote:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2120504/Trayvon-Martin-case-He-suspended-times-caught-burglary-tool.html

Quote:

Trayvon suspended THREE times for 'drugs, truancy, graffiti and carrying burglary tool' and did he attack bus driver too? New picture emerges of victim as parents claim it's all a smear

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2120504/Trayvon-Martin-case-He-suspended-times-caught-burglary-tool.html#ixzz1z6d90gC0


Quote:
The Miami Herald claims that in October, he was caught with a 'burglary tool' - a flathead screwdriver - and
12 pieces of women's jewellery. Martin insisted that they did not belong to him.


The kid was actually telling the truth that time,
the jewellery items clearly belonged to the women he'd stolen them from.....
Maybe if thay 'd been sufficiently defensively armed against Trayvon,
that 'd have saved Zimmy from a lot of travail.





David
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  2  
Reply Thu 28 Jun, 2012 04:51 pm
If fate is kind, perhaps he'll have a lot more travail after this goes to trial.
gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Thu 28 Jun, 2012 06:44 pm
@snood,
Nothing to say abut the thing I posted above?? That's the picture of the poor (black) family who lost a child to an illegal alien driver who nobody can touch or do anything about because the demoKKKrat party wants hispanics as their next voting block, i.e. sort of like a mirror image of the Martin/Zimmerman case.
tenderfoot
 
  0  
Reply Sat 30 Jun, 2012 02:01 am
@gungasnake,
Racist.... the snake sucking his gun can't read this and that makes it even better
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Jul, 2012 02:31 pm
This is the latest development...
Quote:
Zimmerman bail set at $1M
By Yamiche Alcindor, USA TODAY

The Florida neighborhood watch volunteer charged with killing Trayvon Martin got a second chance Thursday when a judge set bail at $1 million.

In issuing his ruling, Circuit Court Judge Kenneth Lester said George Zimmerman manipulated the court during his first bond hearing in April and may have planned to flee with more than $130,000 collected through a personal website.

"This increased bail is not a punishment," Lester wrote. "It is meant to allay this court's concern that the defendant intended to flee the jurisdiction and a lesser amount would not ensure his presence in court."

Lester revoked Zimmerman's $150,000 bond last month after the state prosecutor accused Zimmerman and his wife of lying to the court about their financial assets during his initial bond hearing so Zimmerman could obtain a lower bond.

Zimmerman, a white Hispanic, is charged with second-degree murder in the shooting of Martin on Feb. 26. He told police he shot the 17-year-old in self-defense after the teen repeatedly knocked his head to the ground. Martin's family says Zimmerman racially profiled the black teen and confronted him as he walked home from a convenience store unarmed.

Yesterday's ruling came days after a second three-hour bond hearing last week during which attorneys on both sides argued over the details of the case and Zimmerman's credibility.

Zimmerman instructed his wife on how to transfer money from his bank account into hers and his sister's while he was in jail, according to recordings of jail calls released by prosecutors last month.

Judge Lester sided largely with the state prosecutor's portrayal of Zimmerman as a liar who intentionally misled the court and may have been preparing to flee the country once out on bail. He rejected the notion put forth by Zimmerman's lawyer, Mark O'Mara, that Zimmerman lied about his finances because he didn't trust the system after being charged with second-degree murder.

"The defendant has flaunted the system," Lester wrote in his ruling. "The defendant tried to manipulate the system when he has been presented the opportunity to do so."

Zimmerman's wife, Shellie, 25, faces a perjury charge for allegedly lying about the couple's finances. She was arrested and briefly jailed before posting a $1,000 bond.

In making his decision, Lester wrote that he considered the nature and circumstances of the second-degree murder charge, the weight of the evidence against Zimmerman, and Zimmerman's community and family ties. He also took into account Zimmerman's financial resources and mental condition and weighed whether Zimmerman was a danger to his community.

While out on bond, Zimmerman must, among other things, remain in Seminole County, unless given approval to leave, must use an electronic monitoring device at his own expense and must stay away from the Orlando-Sanford International Airport, Lester wrote.

Getting bond twice is rare but Lester's ruling shows that he is a no-nonsense judge that takes this case very seriously, said Richard Rosenbaum, a criminal defense attorney in Fort Lauderdale.

"There was a lot of negative language," Rosenbaum said of the order. "I was a little surprised that at the end he gave him a bond. But, it's such a high bond that it may be one that Zimmerman can't conquer."

The $1 million bond will be hard for Zimmerman to meet because he not only has to come up with 10% of the amount--$100,000--but Zimmerman will have to put up $1 million worth of assets as collateral in case he flees, Rosenbaum said.

"I doubt that Zimmerman can back a million dollar bond unless he has every relative and friend willing to put their houses up for him," he said.

Meanwhile, Benjamin Crump, the attorney for the parents of Trayvon Martin, issued a statement shortly after the ruling. "Trayvon's parents would rather that the killer of their unarmed child remain in jail until the trial," he said. "However, they respect the ruling of the court and the strong message that the judge sent that deference to judicial integrity is paramount to all court proceedings."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-07-05/zimmerman-bond-trayvon/56035192/1
Baldimo
 
  2  
Reply Thu 5 Jul, 2012 04:16 pm
@firefly,
Witch hunt. Zimmerman has done nothing but comply with the courts orders. He has always turned himself in when requested and as far as I can tell the Judge is being an ass. He is quoted as saying "This increased bail is not a punishment," Lester wrote. "It is meant to allay this court's concern that the defendant intended to flee the jurisdiction and a lesser amount would not ensure his presence in court." There is no proof other then that in the Judges mind that Zimmerman would flee. As I pointed out, he has always shown up when requested by the courts or police.
 

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