10
   

Will Scotus Get ObamaCare Ruling "Right"?

 
 
Reply Tue 27 Mar, 2012 04:36 pm
And what is right? I think right is that the plan is in violation of the Constitution and is abuse of power by the government. After today I am reasonably sure that the Supremes will get this one right. I further think that this law getting stuck down will strike fear into the hearts of those who count on expanding the use of government power to force all Americans to kow-tow to their Utopian desires (waves to the feminists).

What say you?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 10 • Views: 3,141 • Replies: 50

 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Mar, 2012 04:52 pm
@hawkeye10,
Damn. You beat me by 2 minutes! I, too, am surprised and disappointed that this case didn't get onto A2K until today.
Rickoshay75
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Mar, 2012 04:53 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

And what is right? I think right is that the plan is in violation of the Constitution and is abuse of power by the government. After today I am reasonably sure that the Supremes will get this one right. I further think that this law getting stuck down will strike fear into the hearts of those who count on expanding the use of government power to force all Americans to kow-tow to their Utopian desires (waves to the feminists).

What say you?


There is already a medical mandate in force, the Emergency medical treatment and active labor act (EMTALA) of 1986, so this new mandate isn't all that new.

https://www.cms.gov/EMTALA/
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Mar, 2012 04:56 pm
@Rickoshay75,
I am not familiar with that..what does EMTALA make all Amercians purchase?
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Tue 27 Mar, 2012 05:02 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

I am not familiar with that..what does EMTALA make all Amercians purchase?


It makes us all purchase the health care of anyone who wanders into an emergency room.

Cycloptichorn
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Tue 27 Mar, 2012 05:06 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
It makes us all purchase the health care of anyone who wanders into an emergency room.


Bullshit, all you need to do is to take your medical business to a firm that does not operate an Emergency room, easy enough to do these days, after so many have been closed.
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Tue 27 Mar, 2012 07:01 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
It makes us all purchase the health care of anyone who wanders into an emergency room.


Bullshit, all you need to do is to take your medical business to a firm that does not operate an Emergency room, easy enough to do these days, after so many have been closed.


You still pay the costs of emergency room care for people who wandered in, whether you are going to a hospital that has an emergency room or not.

I think you probably ought to research the HC market a little bit more, and look at the factors that drive HC costs up, Hawk.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Mar, 2012 07:19 pm
@hawkeye10,
I hope you are on medicare and social security because that will be the next thing that the S.C. will throw out you stupid bastard.
slkshock7
 
  3  
Reply Tue 27 Mar, 2012 08:11 pm
@RABEL222,
I, for one, hope Obamacare goes down in flames. It's bad law camouflaged with a thin veneer of goodness. SCOTUS hopefully will see thru the veneer.

As for medicare and social security, we've all heard since our childhood that these programs are on their deathbeds. Therefore if you're relying on those programs to "save" yourself upon retirement or illness, you're a fool. If these programs disappear before I retire, I'll certainly be pissed ... but it won't be catastrophic. I have always thought of these programs as "supplements" to my old age health and retirement income safety nets. They are not core to either.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Mar, 2012 08:26 pm
@slkshock7,
Where'd you get that goat avatar, SS?
rosborne979
 
  3  
Reply Tue 27 Mar, 2012 08:55 pm
@hawkeye10,
They define what is right. So they can't help but get it right.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Tue 27 Mar, 2012 10:02 pm
@rosborne979,
rosborne979 wrote:

They define what is right. So they can't help but get it right.



Wow, I thought all you dinosaurs were dead. In a different age guys like you were saying that the Pope is always right. We know better now. Most of us.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Tue 27 Mar, 2012 10:06 pm
@hawkeye10,
So you're suggesting that one deliberately purchase insurance that doesn't cover you when you most need it?
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Tue 27 Mar, 2012 10:26 pm
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

So you're suggesting that one deliberately purchase insurance that doesn't cover you when you most need it?


No, I am saying that there is no mandate to help pay for uninsured visits to the Emergency room, because while we all choose to do so we dont have to do it, so the mandate to have insurance is a whole new kettle of fish. We shall see what SCOTUS thinks of it, but as of tonight I think they will knock it down. They certainly should, under the Scalia argument that the government can not demand commerce just so that it can use the commerce clause to force us citizens to bend to its will.
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Tue 27 Mar, 2012 11:18 pm
@hawkeye10,
1. The law requires that emergency rooms treat everyone, regardless of their ability to pay.

Do you understand this simple fact? If you go to a hospital with an emergency room, and you pay your bill, then you are subsidizing the emergency room.

It doesn't matter if you pay the whole thing yourself, or if you pay via insurance. You are still subsidizing the emergency room.

If you have insurance, and the insurance carrier pays for services at a hospital with an emergency room, then you are still subsidizing that emergency room. It doesn't matter if you go to that hospital or not; someone on that plan is going to go to the hospital.

Really, there is almost no way to pay for healthcare in this country without subsidizing emergency care for those who could not afford it otherwise.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Tue 27 Mar, 2012 11:22 pm
@DrewDad,
No you not understand the simple fact that there is no mandate that you either go to an Emergency room or that you have insurance that covers emergency rooms? The 17% of visits that are not insured plus the 14% that are Medicaid/Medicare need to be paid for, and most likely they will be paid by the insured patients and not the owners of the Emergency Center, but no one makes you pay in. You choose to do so.
DrewDad
 
  3  
Reply Tue 27 Mar, 2012 11:26 pm
@hawkeye10,
But it's not just the emergency room. The hospital recovers those expenses by raising the cost of all other procedures done at the hospital.

Are you going to tell me, now, that you can avoid the hospital for your entire life? And you will never, under any circumstances, visit an emergency room?
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Mar, 2012 11:41 pm
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

But it's not just the emergency room. The hospital recovers those expenses by raising the cost of all other procedures done at the hospital.

Are you going to tell me, now, that you can avoid the hospital for your entire life? And you will never, under any circumstances, visit an emergency room?


If there was a market for hospitals without emergency rooms hospitals with out emergency rooms would exist, and they do. Less than 20% of emergency room visits are for emergencies, we could do with a lot fewer of them except that transit times would get so bad that people would die too often in transit. When you go to the Urgent care center you pay or else they turn you away, and most of the time urgent care centers would suit my needs. The American Medical Delivery system is very well fucked, and ObamaCare helped it not at all, but my point is that before ObamaCare there was no mandates.
djjd62
 
  2  
Reply Wed 28 Mar, 2012 04:34 am
last night the local news showed a picture of the current justices, most of them looked vaguely human, but there was something sitting at the end of the first row that looked like either the crypt keeper or a pile of sticks in a robe

what was that exactly
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Wed 28 Mar, 2012 06:59 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
but my point is that before ObamaCare there was no mandates.

Yes, I think we can agree that before the Healthcare Act was passed, there was no requirement that people purchase health insurance.
 

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