0
   

US workers are not competitive?

 
 
Reply Sat 10 Mar, 2012 11:21 pm
If the US is in a perpetual state of deficit spending. It would be fine if it can continue to prints money, and Asians continue to lend. The problem is that cost of living will continue to rise in the US. In order for most Americans to maintain their middle class lifestyle, they would need to be individual more productive. Irresponsibility do not have a record of producing productive workers. That is a problem.



 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Mar, 2012 11:25 pm
@TuringEquivalent,
American workers are not the problem with America....the problem is with America's Management.
TuringEquivalent
 
  0  
Reply Sun 11 Mar, 2012 12:26 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

American workers are not the problem with America....the problem is with America's Management.


You don 't honest believe this?
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Mar, 2012 12:34 am
@hawkeye10,
And the fact that workers know that management is always looking to move their jobs overseas or to Mexico dosent help ones attitude. When I was working, Im retired now, we had a good attitude and were productive and than starting about 1980 management decided not to invest in equipment and repaires and to run machines untill they became impossible to fix and than moved our operations to foreign countries. It wasent just the company I worked for I discovered most companies did the same thing when I compared our operations with other workers. I was a maintence worker for 35 years and the last 10 years of my career I had to do bailing wire repaires to equipment because management wouldent spend the money for the proper repaires. If you dont think that screws up your attitude then I have to conclude that you never worked for this kind of company.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 11 Mar, 2012 12:45 am
@RABEL222,
The main problem was evident long before the jobs left....it was clear when managements over and over again sold firms that had been built over decades of hard work from both management and workers to Raiders who were only interested in stripping the company of loot. While I was doing my EE degree at MSU during the early 80's I was often hearing 40 + year old corporate guys saying " I fucked up, I never should have spent my life trying to build this company, I was played for a putz!" My ears perked up, my socialist views were birthed then and there.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Mar, 2012 12:47 am
@TuringEquivalent,
TuringEquivalent wrote:

hawkeye10 wrote:

American workers are not the problem with America....the problem is with America's Management.


You don 't honest believe this?


completely. American leadership has failed the people, there is no vice-versa.
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Sun 11 Mar, 2012 12:55 am
@TuringEquivalent,
From a 2009 article

Quote:
American workers stay longer in the office, at the factory or on the farm than their counterparts in Europe and most other rich nations, and they produce more per person over the year.

They also get more done per hour than everyone but the Norwegians, according to a U.N. report released Monday, which said the United States "leads the world in labor productivity."

When my company was looking to move work overseas to China, the basic thumbrule was that US workers were 4x more productive but cost 7x more to hire. That was why they moved jobs, not laziness or irresponsibility.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 11 Mar, 2012 01:06 am
@engineer,
Quote:
When my company was looking to move work overseas to China, the basic thumbrule was that US workers were 4x more productive but cost 7x more to hire. That was why they moved jobs, not laziness or irresponsibility.


Only because loyalty to the workers who had built the company did not mean a ******* thing! We know where we stand with the corporate class now though dont we.....
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Mar, 2012 01:17 am
@hawkeye10,
True. Companies exist for one purpose - to make money. That's not good or bad, just true. If you want an organization with a different purpose, then a company is not for you.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 11 Mar, 2012 01:18 am
@engineer,
engineer wrote:

True. Companies exist for one purpose - to make money. That's not good or bad, just true. If you want an organization with a different purpose, then a company is not for you.


BULL ****!

Companies exist to make this collective a better place to live. If they cant or wont then they must be killed. Contribute or die.

PS, they used to know this, they used to consider the customers and the workers stake holders in the company, the investors did not have clear title. Ya, that when by the boards some time ago.
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Mar, 2012 01:24 am
@hawkeye10,
Sorry Hawk, but you won't have a company anywhere that exists to make this collective a better place. Compete or die and the standard for the competition is money. Employees are not paid based on their contributions or their needs but on how much they are worth in the marketplace. Prices are not set on how much someone can pay or manufacturing cost but on what the market will bear. Loyalty is rewarded not because it is the right thing to do but because it will inspire future loyalty from others. You can't really doubt that even if you don't like it.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 11 Mar, 2012 01:35 am
@engineer,
How long have you been with your firm buddy, cause it was just a year and a half ago that you were talking about leaving because you were not feeling it. Are you being rewarded for your loyalty now? What is your confidence level that you will not look back on these years now as your putz years?

PS, the way I remember it you said that you wished that you could leave, but that you are locked in because you are underwater on your house.
TuringEquivalent
 
  0  
Reply Sun 11 Mar, 2012 02:00 am
@engineer,
engineer wrote:

From a 2009 article

Quote:
American workers stay longer in the office, at the factory or on the farm than their counterparts in Europe and most other rich nations, and they produce more per person over the year.

They also get more done per hour than everyone but the Norwegians, according to a U.N. report released Monday, which said the United States "leads the world in labor productivity."

When my company was looking to move work overseas to China, the basic thumbrule was that US workers were 4x more productive but cost 7x more to hire. That was why they moved jobs, not laziness or irresponsibility.



You do know "productivity" is determined by the level of education, certification, and technology know how, right? US workers are more productivity on average because of "technology gain". Just look at silicon valley where most workers are Asians, and Indian engineers. To given an example, the US worker is more productive if the US guy runs a machine that manufacture the same amount of stuff than 4 other Chinese workers have to output by hand. Get me?
TuringEquivalent
 
  0  
Reply Sun 11 Mar, 2012 02:06 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

TuringEquivalent wrote:

hawkeye10 wrote:

American workers are not the problem with America....the problem is with America's Management.


You don 't honest believe this?


completely. American leadership has failed the people, there is no vice-versa.


Yes, but I think you don 't believe it. How did American leader fail this country? Be more specific?
0 Replies
 
TuringEquivalent
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Mar, 2012 02:11 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

engineer wrote:

True. Companies exist for one purpose - to make money. That's not good or bad, just true. If you want an organization with a different purpose, then a company is not for you.


BULL ****!

Companies exist to make this collective a better place to live. If they cant or wont then they must be killed. Contribute or die.

PS, they used to know this, they used to consider the customers and the workers stake holders in the company, the investors did not have clear title. Ya, that when by the boards some time ago.


This is what I am talking about... If US companies exist to contribute to the well being of America, then a Mexican company also exist to contribute to the well being of mexico. Are you saying American companies cannot contribute to Mexico, or vise versa. So full of contradictions. It seems weird that you would believe what you are saying.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Mar, 2012 06:13 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

How long have you been with your firm buddy, cause it was just a year and a half ago that you were talking about leaving because you were not feeling it. Are you being rewarded for your loyalty now? What is your confidence level that you will not look back on these years now as your putz years?

PS, the way I remember it you said that you wished that you could leave, but that you are locked in because you are underwater on your house.

Wrong guy. I've got over 20 with my company, never been underwater on a house, never felt I wasn't sufficiently rewarded financially. Still that doesn't impact the argument. The purpose of a company is to make money. That's it. Everything it does is to make money. Not saying good or bad, that's just the way it is. If you want a different goal you need a different organization.
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Mar, 2012 06:15 am
@TuringEquivalent,
Yes, I do get you but it doesn't change the end result nor does it explain why US workers would be more productive than their European counterparts. The argument that US workers are irresponsible or lazy doesn't hold water. It might fit a certain world view but it doesn't fit facts.
TuringEquivalent
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 11 Mar, 2012 12:33 pm
@engineer,
engineer wrote:

Yes, I do get you but it doesn't change the end result nor does it explain why US workers would be more productive than their European counterparts. The argument that US workers are irresponsible or lazy doesn't hold water. It might fit a certain world view but it doesn't fit facts.



Yeah, I am not doubting the facts, but what does "average productivity" mean? What are you using this number for? This is not the number you want to use to prove that the majority of Americans are not lazy. This is why a lot of people say it, but they don 't really believe it. This real reason you lie to yourself is so that you can better fool others...
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 11 Mar, 2012 01:16 pm
@engineer,
Quote:
The purpose of a company is to make money. That's it. Everything it does is to make money.


Parasites do well to remember that a healthy host is beneficial...
TuringEquivalent
 
  0  
Reply Sun 11 Mar, 2012 01:27 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
The purpose of a company is to make money. That's it. Everything it does is to make money.


Parasites do well to remember that a healthy host is beneficial...


So, you are obviously "passionate" about this subject. There is an incentive to know it, yet, you act as if you don 't. You are passionately trying to repress what you know is true( or the facts) for psychological comfort? I have a hard time to believe people are clueless at the internet age.
0 Replies
 
 

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