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Reality from the view point of theists

 
 
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 02:44 pm
I am trying to figure out if theist have any criteria that has to be met before something can be called reality and if there is, what is the criteria needed for something to be called reality?

There are some very good, long winded, philosophical discussions about reality in this forum but I was hoping that we could keep this in layman's terms being that I'm a layman.

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough” Albert Einstein

I may have reality all wrong but as an atheist I tend to think reality is something that all people should be able to sense in some way. Do not get me wrong because I do think that there are some things that we can not sense but we do have tools that allow us to detect them and in some cases we may only be able to use theory. There are probably some things that we are not able to detect yet, but one day we will.
Now even though there may be some things that exist that we do not know about, most atheist do not start speaking of these things as if they absolutely exist without having evidence.

Please share your point of view theist or atheist.

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Type: Discussion • Score: 18 • Views: 37,840 • Replies: 1,122

 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 04:05 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
I may have reality all wrong but as an atheist I tend to think reality is something that all people should be able to sense in some way.


One of the great problems of the world, RL, is that way too many people think that they can “sense” reality.

Theists “sense” that there is a GOD.

Many atheists “sense” there are no gods.

You may be right…but my bet is that it is not possible to sense the reality. We are, in my opinion, stuck here in a giant question mark.

Or at least, that is my sense of reality…for what it is worth.

And you know what I think it is worth.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 04:07 pm
@Frank Apisa,
and Frank is certain that noone can know.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 04:09 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
and Frank is certain that noone can know.


No I am not, Farmerman...and that is something I have mentioned dozens of times.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 04:18 pm
@Frank Apisa,
There does seem to be the word reality and I tend to think that things we "all"can relate to are closer to being realities than things that only some of us believe in.
If a group of people can not sense it, it may not be reality. If some of us believe in unicorns but another group does not I think that our belief may need to be questioned.
Sure we can get things wrong at times but I am interested in what criteria people have for reality.
The sun is real, "there for it is a reality that we all see and we can feel the warmth from it.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 04:19 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Now Im really confused. Forget it, Im just here for the pistachios.

SO, Frank is NOT certain that noone can know. Frank seems to have hit the nail on the head for Thursday.

Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 04:37 pm
@farmerman,
I think we have discussed this in the past, FM, but rather than "just forget about it" let me give you take on it.

RL brought the words “theists” and “atheists” immediately into the discussion about “reality”...so I am assuming the question of the existence or non-existence of a GOD or gods was in his mind.

In any case, a primary question of “reality” is: Is there a GOD (are there gods) or are there no gods?

I am absolutely certain no one will ever KNOW if there are NO GODS.

I am absolutely certain that IF THERE IS A GOD…it is possible to KNOW there is a GOD. For a variety of reasons, I think it highly unlikely, but IF THERE IS A GOD, it is at least possible to know. (The GOD could be a personal GOD and could reveal itself in an unambiguous way if it chose to.)

Once again, for a variety of reasons, I think it highly unlikely, but it is at least possible. For that reason, I disagreed with your statement that I am certain no one can know.
fresco
 
  3  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 04:39 pm
@reasoning logic,
The significant difference between the two respective views of "reality" is that for a theist, a God is part of that reality to a greater or lesser extent, or is indeed responsible for it. For the theist all "knowledge" of such reality is in the gift of such a "God", including "His" own existence. Hence the question of "God's existence" is a non-issue for both theists for whom such existence is a requirement for "reality", and atheists for whom it is not.

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reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 04:48 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
RL brought the words “theists” and “atheists” immediately into the discussion about “reality”...so I am assuming the question of the existence or non-existence of a GOD or gods was in his mind.


It did cross my mind but I am more interested in what criteria is required for reality or can just anything someone thinks up be reality?
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 04:50 pm
@reasoning logic,
I think that a literal belief in the Bible as a truthful record of creation is far more credible than a lot of the wacked out crap you believe. I've seen the videos you post, 1 and a half hours of them to be precise. I don't think you and reality are even on nodding terms.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 04:53 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
It did cross my mind but I am more interested in what criteria is required for reality or can just anything someone thinks up be reality?


Well, if you are talking about an objective reality...and if there is an objective reality...then the reality that IS...is what IS. Unless the objective reality IS that whatever someone thinks up is the reality...(that is the only exception to what comes next)...then the objective reality is what is, rather than what someone thinks up.

What IS...IS.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 04:53 pm
@izzythepush,
And to think that I thought for a moment that you were a part of reality.
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 04:54 pm
@reasoning logic,
All discussions of reality are by definition conducted in a common language and subject to agreed "evidence". These social contraints provide the limitations of usage of the word "reality". Obviously, two theists may have different constraints to those of two atheists.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 04:55 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
What IS...IS.


" God is God" That is what God is?
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 04:59 pm
There is no such thing as either "objective" or "subjective" reality. There is only agreed reality for the purpose of decision making with respect to subsequent action.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 05:02 pm
@fresco,
Is there anything that we all can agree is reality? I would think the sun is one and I would think that things like unicorn fairies and so forth would not be.

I think that even theist have some sort of criteria, at least I would think they would but they would think that their God is exempt from being subjected to it because he created everything.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 05:03 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
" God is God" That is what God is?


If there is a GOD...then, yes.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 05:04 pm
@fresco,
Quote:
There is no such thing as either "objective" or "subjective" reality.


And you KNOW that how?



Quote:
There is only agreed reality for the purpose of decision making with respect to subsequent action.


Same question.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 05:05 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I seem to agree.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 05:06 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
Is there anything that we all can agree is reality?


Honestly, I don't think so. There is at least the possibility we cannot, because everything we suppose we see and know...may be an illusion.

Not saying it is...just that it may be.

So...since that possibility exists...we really cannot agree on a reality.
 

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