4
   

Should "though" be "through" here?

 
 
Reply Sat 21 Jan, 2012 10:20 pm


Context:

Originalist doctrine seeks to discern the original intent of the Constitution's framers. It is antithetical to the judicial activism many conservatives liken to legislating from the bench to achieve political ends. The most polarizing example of judicial activism revolves around Roe v. Wade, which bore the right to an abortion from the right to privacy. An originalist would argue that the framers never contemplated the right to an abortion, thus only Congress or the states can manufacture such a right. The originalist is not concerned that the right to abortion exists, but that it should be created though the appropriate means rather than a politically-charged court decision.

More:
http://www.nationalcenter.org/P21NVHicksThomas1204.html
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Type: Question • Score: 4 • Views: 1,752 • Replies: 38
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Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Jan, 2012 11:18 pm
@oristarA,
Yes. That's a typo.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 03:48 am
@Lustig Andrei,
Lustig Andrei wrote:

Yes. That's a typo.


Thank you Merry.

By the by, in the context there is "liken to". Liken what to?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 04:34 am
@oristarA,
liken to legislating from the bench.

We call this judicial legislation.

For the record,
as I see it, the correct rationale for freedom of abortion
is self defense, as defended by 2nd and 9th Amendments.
If I remember accurately, the circuit court of appeals used that.
Roe v. Wade was not artfully drafted in the USSC.





David
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 04:37 am

Andy is right about the typo.





David
0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 04:42 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

liken to legislating from the bench.

We call this judicial legislation.

For the record,
as I see it, the correct rationale for freedom of abortion
is self defense, as defended by 2nd and 9th Amendments.
If I remember accurately, the circuit court of appeals used that.
Roe v. Wade was not artfully drafted in the USSC.
David


Thank you Dave.
But I didn't get it. What liken to legislating from the bench?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 06:37 am
@oristarA,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

liken to legislating from the bench.

We call this judicial legislation.

For the record,
as I see it, the correct rationale for freedom of abortion
is self defense, as defended by 2nd and 9th Amendments.
If I remember accurately, the circuit court of appeals used that.
Roe v. Wade was not artfully drafted in the USSC.
David
oristarA wrote:
Thank you Dave.
But I didn't get it. What liken to legislating from the bench?
It refers to judicial activism.
In other words:
Conservatives can liken judicial activism
unto legislating from the bench
.

Judicial activism means judges changing things around
to conform to their own preferences,
instead of blindly applying the existing law.

Imagine a surgeon on the job who (without authorization)
starts changing around the patient in front of him on the table,
to re-create him according to the personal wishes of that surgeon,
like a sculptor cutting rock to make it look the way he wants.





David
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 01:37 pm
@oristarA,
I have a feeling that you don't understand this use of 'liken', Ori.

liken - consider or describe as similar, equal, or analogous

[Quick definitions from WordNet ]

Examples from M-W:

<he generally likened a root canal to some horrible form of torture>
<I think that we can liken the two pianists, at least in terms of natural talent.>
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 01:41 pm
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:

Lustig Andrei wrote:

Yes. That's a typo.


Thank you Merry.

By the by, in the context there is "liken to". Liken what to?


"Judicial activism" is being likened to "legislating from the bench." In other words the assertion is being made that the rulings of certain "activist" judges amount to passing laws from the judicial seat of power, "the bench", that being a case of the judicial branch usurping the powers of the legislative branch of the government.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2012 09:32 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:

liken to legislating from the bench.

We call this judicial legislation.

For the record,
as I see it, the correct rationale for freedom of abortion
is self defense, as defended by 2nd and 9th Amendments.
If I remember accurately, the circuit court of appeals used that.
Roe v. Wade was not artfully drafted in the USSC.
David
oristarA wrote:
Thank you Dave.
But I didn't get it. What liken to legislating from the bench?
It refers to judicial activism.
In other words:
Conservatives can liken judicial activism
unto legislating from the bench
.

Judicial activism means judges changing things around
to conform to their own preferences,
instead of blindly applying the existing law.

Imagine a surgeon on the job who (without authorization)
starts changing around the patient in front of him on the table,
to re-create him according to the personal wishes of that surgeon,
like a sculptor cutting rock to make it look the way he wants.

David


Excellent, Dave!

But I failed to understand "changing around". Does it have the same meaning of "changing"?
0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2012 09:35 am
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

I have a feeling that you don't understand this use of 'liken', Ori.

liken - consider or describe as similar, equal, or analogous

[Quick definitions from WordNet ]

Examples from M-W:

<he generally likened a root canal to some horrible form of torture>
<I think that we can liken the two pianists, at least in terms of natural talent.>


Yeah, the form "liken something to" is what I could easily understand . But explainers used to drag "something" from between "liken" and "to".

Thank you.




0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2012 09:37 am
@Lustig Andrei,
Quote:

"Judicial activism" is being likened to "legislating from the bench." In other words the assertion is being made that the rulings of certain "activist" judges amount to passing laws from the judicial seat of power, "the bench", that being a case of the judicial branch usurping the powers of the legislative branch of the government.


I'd like to dive into the complexity of this common law . Because it is informative.

Gracias.

McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2012 03:55 pm

liken to = compare with.

It's more AmE than the real stuff.
0 Replies
 
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2012 05:18 pm
@oristarA,
A judge can make a judgement in a case where the law is less than clear on a particular subject. Any such judgement constitutes a "precedent" which then has the effect of law because future cases dealing with the same subject will then have to be decided on the basis of the precedet set in previous cases. (Btw, McTag is quite right -- this is primarily an American phenomenon; courts elsewhere in the English-speaking -- and non-English-speaking -- world are far less likely to rely on such precedent.) When this happens, judges are frequently accused of, in effect, trying to pass a new law because their judgement did not rely on any existing law but, rather, on their interpretation of the situation. That's what's meant by "usurping the powers of the legislative branch."
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2012 05:19 pm
@oristarA,
Quote:
"Judicial activism" is being likened to "legislating from the bench." In other words the assertion is being made that the rulings of certain "activist" judges amount to passing laws from the judicial seat of power, "the bench", that being a case of the judicial branch usurping the powers of the legislative branch of the government.
oristarA wrote:
I'd like to dive into the complexity of this common law. Because it is informative.

Gracias.
It was said that judges FIND the law (discover it by study) not make the law.
The objection to judicial legislation is usurpation
of the legislative function, creating new law, faking and pretending
that it exists; inventing it.





David
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2012 05:21 pm
No argument with what OmSigDAVID said.
0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Jan, 2012 09:33 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Lustig Andrei wrote:

A judge can make a judgement in a case where the law is less than clear on a particular subject. Any such judgement constitutes a "precedent" which then has the effect of law because future cases dealing with the same subject will then have to be decided on the basis of the precedet set in previous cases. (Btw, McTag is quite right -- this is primarily an American phenomenon; courts elsewhere in the English-speaking -- and non-English-speaking -- world are far less likely to rely on such precedent.) When this happens, judges are frequently accused of, in effect, trying to pass a new law because their judgement did not rely on any existing law but, rather, on their interpretation of the situation. That's what's meant by "usurping the powers of the legislative branch."


Would you like to give us some concrete examples about this phenomenon, Merry? Because Judicial Independence is one of the Five Pillars that hold up American Government - the wide-acclaimed and most successful Political System in human history. And now we've seen Judicial Independence has its advantages and disadvantages.







0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Jan, 2012 10:04 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

Quote:
"Judicial activism" is being likened to "legislating from the bench." In other words the assertion is being made that the rulings of certain "activist" judges amount to passing laws from the judicial seat of power, "the bench", that being a case of the judicial branch usurping the powers of the legislative branch of the government.
oristarA wrote:
I'd like to dive into the complexity of this common law. Because it is informative.

Gracias.
It was said that judges FIND the law (discover it by study) not make the law.
The objection to judicial legislation is usurpation
of the legislative function, creating new law, faking and pretending
that it exists; inventing it.
David


I didn't understand you, Dave.
In a particular case that has had no precedent, a judge now makes his ruling decision thus set a precedent since. Other judges with same rank or lower will have to consider and follow this precedent when they encounter a similar case until a higher level judge overturns the precedent. In this sense, making a precedent is making law.

And now you said it was a usurpation?

Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Jan, 2012 10:39 pm
@oristarA,
David is using the word "usurpation" in the sense that judges are supposed to interpret existing laws and rule according to those laws, not, in effect, create new laws by precedent-setting judgements. In that sense they are "usurping" the prerogative of the legislative branch of government (in the case of the USA that would be the Congress).
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Jan, 2012 10:45 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Lustig Andrei wrote:
David is using the word "usurpation" in the sense that judges are supposed to interpret existing laws and rule according to those laws, not, in effect, create new laws by precedent-setting judgements. In that sense they are "usurping" the prerogative of the legislative branch of government (in the case of the USA that would be the Congress).
Correct.





David
0 Replies
 
 

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