How to respond to this argument against sanctioning Iran?

Shows, I didn't revist this for a long time...

What a remarkably insular conclusion. Israel have obvious and fairly unique defense needs, in a country surrounded by enemies. In broad terms - I feel sympathy for any country in that situation.

But sympathy has only some little to do with it - I think it's an incredibly complex situation, that a lot of armchair critics judge by what they think should happen in a perfect world. I don't think the world is perfect.

As I said - having formed the country (and I hear that numerous attrocities were committed in the forming of it)...it now exists, and is the reality, and the residents have to deal with the defense needs that they now have (as so many of them were not born during the forming of the country), not the history...and yet there are those alive old enough to remember the history. That's not simple, it's not fair to the Palestinians, and it rightly garners hate towards Israel...for the old people, and the direct descendants influenced by this...but there is also the issue of 'the muslim brotherhood', which further complicates matters.



...that's rather insulting, and in my view, also quite ignorant. There's very good grounds for viewing it as a catch 22.

My view was formed not just from media, but from :
Personal views on general situations, including :

- My belief that everyone has the right to defend themselves, even while they should be trying to make peace
- Self defense (of a country) requires defensible borders
- Self defense when you are surrounded by enemies is difficult, complex, and ultimately - there is no good answer, except to make peace, which would depend on the willingness of the parties involved.

And also from :
Readings on the first Gulf War - how Arabs thought that America showed weakness by not removing Sadam at that time. That view (Arabic view of weakness) also showed true in the Arafat stuff mentioned below.

And also from :
- talking with Israeli's on holidays (stayed in a backpackers with a few),
- hundreds of quotes attributed to Arab leaders (so no Israeli manipulation there) spouting hate. Now perhpas the Israelis also hate the Arabs but are smart enough not to say so on TV...but that would be irelevant to the Issue of whether or not Israel has a real need to defend itself (see previous comments regarding the right to self defense)...and from the level of hate surrounding it purely from the leaders, it's certainly appears it does. The obvious bombings also furthers this. That Israel may do the same thing against the Palestinians in the area is not good...it may even be brutal and over the top...and the Palestinians may or may not be justified in their behaviour...it doesn't change the fact that Israel does need to defend itself.

What I am saying is that it is ridiculous to hold Israel to account while not holding the Palestinians to account. No country can allow bombings from a known other country and just sit there and passively take that. Anyone who thinks the bombings would just stop if 'Israel did this or that' hasn't watched the numerous peace talks broken by the Palestinians, nor understood the hate in the area.

And perhaps also from :
- this one is a guess, but I wouldn't be surprised if Muslims have hated Jews ever since Muhammed (or however his name is spelt) reviled the Jews for not recognising him as a prophet.

Keh - Arafat was just an example of what seems to be the Arab mentallity. I knew what Arafat was going to do (in demanding more than the Israeli govt could give) not because I knew Arafat, but because I understand the nature of the sentiment of Arab people...when it comes to showing weakness (which is how they perceived the Israeli offer regarding peace). It was so obvious what Arafat was going to do that I'm surprised the Israeli's made the offer. This is one of the further reasons why I can understand Israel using disporportionate force in retaliation. Having made the overture and been so thoroughly taken advanatge of (to the extent they could no longer proceed) - can anyone ever expect Israel to negotiate from a position that the Arabs would consider weak, again? In other words, given the past, could anyone seriously not expect Israel to only negotiate from a position of strength?

You also not that most ceasefires are broken by the Palestinians?

Personally I don't think Israel has a rosy future, in terms of survival of the country.

I appreciate the fact that you've given a thought of time and thought to your post. I will take a bit more time to give you a response your post deserves.