What is free will?

@Romeo Fabulini,

I wrote:

The Bible does not support belief in an afterlife. When you're dead, you're dead

Romeo Fabuini wrote:

GO SIT HERE THIS INSTANT for spouting your Jehovah's Witness satanic twaddle!..
There's a truckload of verses that say there's an afterlife, check this few--
Jesus said:- "All in the graves shall come out,to resurrection or damnation" (John 5:28/29)

For the record:
Many times I have referred to the resurrection promised in John 5:28. That you have ignored those posts is proof of your desire to deceive. You simply cannot force yourself to admit that those awaiting resurrection are plain old dead.

God warned Adam and Eve that disobedience would lead to death (Genesis 2:17) If roasting toasting, baking, or broiling were in store, certainly that would be the time to tell them, don't you think?

(Ecclesiastes 9:5,6) "For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun."

(Psalms 146:3,4) "Do not put your trust in princes Nor in a son of man, who cannot bring salvation. 4 His spirit goes out, he returns to the ground; On that very day his thoughts perish"

(Ezekiel 18:4) "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die."

Which is no doubt why Paul was inspired to write "In Adam, all are dying." (Romans 5:22)
Further, in Romans:
(Romans 6:7) For he who has died has been acquitted from his sin.
(Romans 6:23) . . . the Wages sin pays is death

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@Pasture Timmy,

And I thought pasture was a reference to something else.

1 Reply

Neologist said:

Quote:

@RF- Many times I have referred to the resurrection promised in John 5:28. That you have ignored those posts is proof of your desire to deceive

No offence mate, but have you gone bananas?
Jesus spelt it out- “..all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned" (John 5:28/29)

yet you were saying earlier that according to your JW beliefs the dead stay dead and there's no heaven or hell, and before that you were spouting JW guff about 144,ooo JW rulers or something!
You're flapping and twisting like a stranded kipper.. Smile

PS- and if anybody's out to deceive, it's you and your satanic JW chums, trying to make ordinary people think the bible is too complicated for them to understand.. Wink

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http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/swag80_zps72962e87.gif~original

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@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Wow, you're like Brad Dourif in 'Wise Blood', he founded 'The Church of Jesus Without Jesus' where the blind stay blind, the lame stay lame, and the dead stay that way"..

In all fairness, the lame, blind and dead don't get cured at any Church :-(

That sounds like a fun movie. I just put a copy on hold at the Library.
Thanks :-)

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@neologist,

neologist wrote:

And I thought pasture was a reference to something else.

Have you ever knocked on doors, preaching your beliefs to any that would listen?

1 Reply

Pasture Timmy said:

Quote:

In all fairness, the lame, blind and dead don't get cured at any Church :-(

Jesus is a hard act to follow.. Wink

Anyway Christians will get a full cure when they're raised from the dead-
"In the twinkling of an eye the dead shall be raised imperishable and we shall be changed" (1 Cor 15:52)
"God shall wipe away every tear, there shall be no more death or pain or sorrow or crying" (Revelation 21:4/5)

1 Reply

@Romeo Fabulini,

I wrote:

Many times I have referred to the resurrection promised in John 5:28. That you have ignored those posts is proof of your desire to deceive

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

No offence mate, but have you gone bananas?
Jesus spelt it out- “..all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned" (John 5:28/29)

Yes. And where are those dead folks now?

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

. . . .yet you were saying earlier that according to your JW beliefs the dead stay dead

No. The dead are dead. Job, for example, looked for the time when God would call him from his sleep (Job 14:17)

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

and there's no heaven or hell,

heaven, yes. Hell (as a place of torture) no.

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

and before that you were spouting JW guff about 144,ooo JW rulers or something!

Yeah, a group of 144,000 is mentioned in Revelation, chapter 7, just before the great crowd which no man was able to number. (verse 9). Two groups, BTW. You have never noticed this, I presume.

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

PS- and if anybody's out to deceive, it's you and your satanic JW chums, trying to make ordinary people think the bible is too complicated for them to understand..

Hmm. I've often cited this: At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. (Matthew 11:25)

That does not mean we might not need direction from another, as the Ethiopian said to Philip: . . . How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him (Acts 8:27)

1 Reply

@Pasture Timmy,

Pasture Timmy wrote:

Have you ever knocked on doors, preaching your beliefs to any that would listen?

Not as much now that my knees are shot.
By and large, I find talking face to face with people quite enjoyable.

1 Reply

@neologist,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

and there's no heaven or hell,

neologist wrote:

heaven, yes. Hell (as a place of torture) no.

What is this non-torture hell called, and what will take place there?

1 Reply

@Pasture Timmy,

Pasture Timmy wrote:

What is this non-torture hell called, and what will take place there?

The Hebrew word 'sheol', translated 'hell' means 'the grave'. Since the dead are not conscious, nothing happens. No pinochle - but no roasting either.

BTW, in the early 1600s, when the King James version was translated, if you told someone to go to hell, he would go to his root cellar. The similarity between hell and hole is no coincidence.

1 Reply

@neologist,

neologist wrote:

The Hebrew word 'sheol', translated 'hell' means 'the grave'. Since the dead are not conscious, nothing happens.

OK, the afterlife consists of heaven or nothing.
Will most people wind up in heaven, or just stay dead?

1 Reply

@neologist,

neologist wrote:

Pasture Timmy wrote:
Have you ever knocked on doors, preaching your beliefs to any that would listen?
Not as much now that my knees are shot.

Can't you get them fixed?

Quote:

By and large, I find talking face to face with people quite enjoyable.

Any funny stories?
One time some JW's came around to my open garage door and introduced themselves. I was inside and pushed the door close button, and as the door moved lower and lower we were bending lower and lower so we could still see each other faces. I was smiling and they looked VERY confused, lol

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Timmy said:

Quote:

Romeo Fabulini wrote:
and there's no heaven or hell,

No i never said that mate, get your facts right or people might think I'm a JW.. Smile

As for JW's they like to think they know more about the bible than the rest of us poor shmuks, that's why they go round knocking peoples doors.
Fact is, we don't need the JW's or any other cult or organised religion because Jesus said - "You have ONE teacher, ME" (Matt 23:10), and he's easy enough to understand- "And the common people heard him gladly" (Mark 12:37)

and Paul had to remind people not to get side-tracked away from him-
"I'm worried lest you be led astray from the simplicity of Christ" (2 Cor 11:3)

A slimline gospel like this costs just a few pennies or is given away by most christian groups and can be read in a couple of days, so forget the longwinded satanic furballs coughed up by the JW's and other cultists and stick with Jesus.. Smile

"The more the words, the less the meaning, and how does that profit anyone?" (Ecc 6:11)

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/gospel.gif~original

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@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Timmy said:
Quote:
Romeo Fabulini wrote:
and there's no heaven or hell,
No i never said that mate, get your facts right or people might think I'm a JW..

Sorry about that. It was I said that you said and I didn't properly identify the writer.
Mea Culpa.
And you could never pass for one of Jehovah's Witnesses.

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@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

"forget the longwinded satanic furballs coughed up by the JW's and other cultists and stick with Jesus.."

Thanks, but the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, and since Jesus is the son of a monster, I'll remain a NACA :-)

1 Reply

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

A slimline gospel like this costs just a few pennies or is given away by most christian groups and can be read in a couple of days, so forget the longwinded satanic furballs coughed up by the JW's and other cultists and stick with Jesus..

Surely, a commentary on John's Gospel may be useful. But it is only one of 66.

BTW, our literature is free, including Bibles

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@Pasture Timmy,

Pasture Timmy wrote:

Thanks, but the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, and since Jesus is the son of a monster, I'll remain a NACA :-)

So, you're saying you really don't understand the Bible at all.
Don't despair.
That puts you ahead of those who claim to know the Bible, but don't

1 Reply

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Jesus is a hard act to follow..

Ah ha, a real live Christian :-)
Maybe you know, what is the purpose of hell?

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@neologist,

neologist wrote:

Pasture Timmy wrote:
Thanks, but the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, and since Jesus is the son of a monster, I'll remain a NACA :-)
So, you're saying you really don't understand the Bible at all.

If your understanding of the Bible is correct, then yes, I don't understand it at all.

Quote:

Don't despair.

I'm in my 60's, and so far so good :-)

Quote:

That puts you ahead of those who claim to know the Bible, but don't

I certainly feel ahead, as if God created the Bible for my amusement.

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Pasture Timmy said:

Quote:

since Jesus is the son of a monster, I'll remain a NACA

Jesus said "I only say what my father tells me to say" (John 12:49)
and then went on to say-
"Love one another, feed the hungry, house the homeless, clothe the destitute, tend the sick, visit the prisoners, look after the poor"(Mark 12:30, John 13:34, Matt 25: 37-40)
So those words came straight from God through Jesus's mouth, so God doesn't sound much of a "monster" to me.. Smile

PS- the JW's re-wrote the bible to suit their own cockamamie ideas ("The New World Translation") so don't take them seriously.. Wink

1 Reply

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