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Prove your own free will!

 
 
Reply Sat 21 May, 2011 07:06 pm
theres alot saying we have no free will, like
an omnipotent god who has a hand in everything,
the butterfly affect, plus the chaos theory,
rules,
your mom taking away xbox if you dont do as she says.
so does free will exist? prove it.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 3 • Views: 5,571 • Replies: 60
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thack45
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 May, 2011 09:09 pm
@hamilton,
Tell you what. You prove that it actually matters and I'll prove free will exists.
fresco
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2011 01:15 am
@hamilton,
"Proof" pre-supposes cognate "persons" who exercise it.
"Persons" pre-suppose the existence non-deterministic systems exercising "choice" such as "to prove" or "not to prove".
So the "exercise of proof" is tautologically indicative of the existence of "free will".
hamilton
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2011 07:32 am
@thack45,
your right. i should have used another word than prove.
ok. explain your free will.
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2011 07:40 am
@fresco,
...unless of course it is contingent to who you are behind and beyond a "person"...
0 Replies
 
withoutpeers
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2011 08:45 am
Only the dead have absolute free will. While you are alive your free will is relative (limited) unless you are a Buddha or psychopath.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2011 09:37 am
@withoutpeers,
...precisely why there is none..in this kind of matter half baked does n´t do it...either you have it or you don´t...
0 Replies
 
G H
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2011 11:32 am
@hamilton,
Quote:
theres alot saying we have no free will, like an omnipotent god who has a hand in everything, the butterfly affect, plus the chaos theory, rules, your mom taking away xbox if you dont do as she says. so does free will exist?

The human individual seems to have an incredible need to be the center of everything. There's a god who considers Jane Average so important that he makes her decisions rather than the processes of her body doing it? There's a vast, unintelligent, unconscious cosmos that narrows itself down to a tiny pinprick on Earth to make decisions for her? A parent has telepathic powers of some sort to take over Jane's brain and make a decision for her? Even a government like that in 1984 somehow invaded Winston's body and made his judgements for him rather than just torturing him into choosing their way? Holy camoly, the lone individual certainly garners a lot of attention from the rest of reality, as well as the latter having some amazing powers and autocratic desires beyond the mainstream accepted ones.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2011 11:40 am
@hamilton,
Quote:
your mom taking away xbox if you dont do as she says.
so does free will exist? prove it.


Evidently, your mom has free will.
hamilton
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2011 12:53 pm
@maxdancona,
well, if she says do this, or il take it away, and i dont, she has no choice, or else she loses any fear i have of her punishing me.
also, she is bound by her word.
(this is hypothetical. i love my mom. but i have no xbox.)
0 Replies
 
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2011 12:55 pm
@withoutpeers,
I think I might be a buddopath....
hamilton
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2011 05:44 pm
@Cyracuz,
Cyracuz wrote:

I think I might be a buddopath....

?
0 Replies
 
north
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2011 09:17 pm
@hamilton,
hamilton wrote:

theres alot saying we have no free will, like
an omnipotent god who has a hand in everything,
the butterfly affect, plus the chaos theory,
rules,
your mom taking away xbox if you dont do as she says.
so does free will exist? prove it.


once you have your own place , leave home , nobody is there to take-away your xbox
wayne
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2011 10:37 pm
@hamilton,
No.
0 Replies
 
hamilton
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 May, 2011 05:59 am
@north,
except myself. and thats just an example. what if i were to break the law, and go to a high security prison? where is my ability to exercise free will there?
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 May, 2011 07:30 am
@hamilton,
There is always a choice.
But "free will" is a self-contradictory term. The ability to chose is meaningless if you are not presented with choices.
hamilton
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 May, 2011 08:02 am
@Cyracuz,
Cyracuz wrote:

There is always a choice.
But "free will" is a self-contradictory term. The ability to chose is meaningless if you are not presented with choices.

well, this brings up fate as well. if fate were what it is supposed to be, (which i believe it is...) then i would have no choice no matter what i do.
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 May, 2011 08:29 am
@hamilton,
So you believe your life was mapped out before it even started?
If you are seeking to justify your belief I am afraid I am of no use to you.
G H
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 May, 2011 12:42 pm
@Cyracuz,
Quote:
Re: hamilton (Post 4616694)
So you believe your life was mapped out before it even started?
If you are seeking to justify your belief I am afraid I am of no use to you.

The topic should have been titled: "Prove various metaphysical bullshit that might enable us to escape responsibility for our poorest decisions". Smile

It's bad enough that religion gave us gods and devils as scapegoats. Now we have cult scientism coddling determinism as if it was fact, rather than a practical assumption that might not even be necessary for motivating us to improve our predictive procedures.

We never have nor ever will confirm that there are zero anomalies in nature, that every micro and macro event that occurs in the cosmos is unerringly obeying a lofty set of principles or a single overarching algorithmic process. I'd certainly like to meet any person who claims to have inspected and rigidly tested every bit of the universe continuously over the last 13-plus billion years as well as the incredibly lengthy era of the future after this, verifying that it never strays from the rules of some all-embracing theory of everything that hasn't even been successfully formulated yet. Give that man/woman or research team a cigar!
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 May, 2011 01:00 pm
@G H,
Quote:
"Prove various metaphysical bullshit that might enable us to escape responsibility for our poorest decisions"

Laughing

Now that you mention it, many people I talk to have this way of thinking that all their triumphs are theirs, they take the credit and feel the pride, but all their failures were due to fate, circumstances and whatnot, and they do not take responsibility.
I am not referring to anyone within this thread, just so that is clear to everyone. Just an observation.
0 Replies
 
 

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