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What is free will?

Forums: Free Will, Philosophy, Logic, Determinism, Definition
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Pasture Timmy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Nov, 2013 04:43 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Pasture Timmy wrote:
Was God disappointed that Adam and Eve ate of the forbidden fruit?
Read Genesis, chapter 3


No, you will answer in your own words, or you won't.
Pasture Timmy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Nov, 2013 05:06 pm
@Pasture Timmy,


What determines the choices God makes?
Does God have free will (the ability to make uninfluenced choices)?



neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Nov, 2013 05:17 pm
@Pasture Timmy,
Pasture Timmy wrote:
Was God disappointed that Adam and Eve ate of the forbidden fruit?
neologist wrote:
Read Genesis, chapter 3
Pasture Timmy wrote:
No, you will answer in your own words, or you won't.
God pronounced judgement on Adam, Eve, and the Serpent. That, IMO, expresses disappointment.

Tell me if your reading of the account raises any objections.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Nov, 2013 05:23 pm
@Pasture Timmy,
Pasture Timmy wrote:
What determines the choices God makes?
Does God have free will (the ability to make uninfluenced choices)?
God's name, Jehovah, literally means "He who causes to become" or "He who causes to exist". Thereby, He has the ability to direct matters in any way He sees fit. Any schemes against Him will fail.
Pasture Timmy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Nov, 2013 07:36 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Pasture Timmy wrote:
Was God disappointed that Adam and Eve ate of the forbidden fruit?

neologist wrote:
God pronounced judgement on Adam, Eve, and the Serpent. That, IMO, expresses disappointment.

Wouldn't any man and woman behave like Adam and Eve behaved, under the same circumstances?

neologist wrote:
Tell me if your reading of the account raises any objections.

Arguing Bible interpretations is a fools errand, so I'm pleased to discuss the account as you see it.

neologist wrote:

God's name, Jehovah, literally means "He who causes to become" or "He who causes to exist". Thereby, He has the ability to direct matters in any way He sees fit. Any schemes against Him will fail.


Does God have free will (the ability to make uninfluenced choices)?
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Nov, 2013 07:58 pm
@Pasture Timmy,
Pasture Timmy wrote:
Does God have free will (the ability to make uninfluenced choices)?
I think that is what this means:
I wrote:
God's name, Jehovah, literally means "He who causes to become" or "He who causes to exist". Thereby, He has the ability to direct matters in any way He sees fit. Any schemes against Him will fail.
Ergo: He has free will.
0 Replies
 
Pasture Timmy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Nov, 2013 08:42 pm
@Pasture Timmy,
Pasture Timmy wrote:

neologist wrote:
God pronounced judgement on Adam, Eve, and the Serpent. That, IMO, expresses disappointment.

Wouldn't any man and woman behave like Adam and Eve behaved, under the same circumstances?
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Nov, 2013 11:59 pm
@Pasture Timmy,
neologist wrote:
God pronounced judgement on Adam, Eve, and the Serpent. That, IMO, expresses disappointment.
Pasture Timmy wrote:
Wouldn't any man and woman behave like Adam and Eve behaved, under the same circumstances?
What do you mean by same circumstances?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Nov, 2013 08:04 am
@neologist,
It's really not the same circumstances, because the influence of our environment produces more "sin." God didn't take that into consideration, but he's failed in so many ways, Obama looks good!
0 Replies
 
Pasture Timmy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Nov, 2013 08:29 am
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

neologist wrote:
God pronounced judgement on Adam, Eve, and the Serpent. That, IMO, expresses disappointment.
Pasture Timmy wrote:
Wouldn't any man and woman behave like Adam and Eve behaved, under the same circumstances?
What do you mean by same circumstances?


The environment being the same that Adam and Eve were placed in.
Specifically, Eve choosing to sin when confronted by the Serpent.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Nov, 2013 08:43 am
@Pasture Timmy,
CI is correct to point out that the same circumstances cannot be repeated. Adam and Eve were at one time perfect.
But, many imperfect humans have been faithful.

And, as you noted. Eve chose to sin
Pasture Timmy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Nov, 2013 09:11 am
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Adam and Eve were at one time perfect.


Are there reasons that perfect humans sin?

Quote:

And, as you noted. Eve chose to sin


The issue is whether or not that choice was "free".
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Nov, 2013 10:18 am
@Pasture Timmy,
If you believe it not free, then we are not talking about the same God
0 Replies
 
Pasture Timmy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Nov, 2013 10:34 am
@Pasture Timmy,
Pasture Timmy wrote:

neologist wrote:

Adam and Eve were at one time perfect.


Are there reasons that perfect humans sin?

neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Nov, 2013 10:55 am
@Pasture Timmy,
Pasture Timmy wrote:
Are there reasons that perfect humans sin?
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. (James 1: 14,15)
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Nov, 2013 10:56 am
@neologist,
neo, Human lust as animal lust is built into our genes.
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Nov, 2013 10:58 am
Poor little Evey, Satan ran rings round her-

SATAN - "Hmm, that apple looks yummy.."
EVE - "I'm not supposed to touch it"
SATAN - "Don't be daft, if you don't have it Adam will, and then laugh at you for being a dumb little girly, you know how men are"
EVE - "I'm forbidden to have it"
SATAN - "Hmm...Your skin looks a bit dry, fresh fruit would work wonders for your complexion"
EVE - "Leave me alone!"
SATAN - "It'll just rot if left on the tree, what a waste.."
EVE - "Shut up"
SATAN - "Apples are good for teeth, you don't want yours to turn black do you?"
EVE - "Oh be quiet!"
SATAN - "You'll get scurvy without vitamin C and your gums will puff up like a boxers gumshield"..
EVE - "Clam up!"
SATAN - "Okay okay, scuse me for breathing, none of my business if you want to end up looking like a cross between Mike Tyson and Ugly Betty"..
EVE - "Hmm okay, I'd better eat it, but don't tell anyone"
SATAN - "Sure, sure, you can trust me"..
-----------------------------
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/swag80_zps72962e87.gif~original
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Nov, 2013 11:01 am
@Romeo Fabulini,
If only it were something as simple, rather than the central issue of the universe.
0 Replies
 
Pasture Timmy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Nov, 2013 11:46 am
@neologist,
Pasture Timmy wrote:
Are there reasons that perfect humans sin?

neologist wrote:

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

So God designed Eve in such a way, that she would sin when enticed by the Serpent.
Why was God disappointed when Eve behaved the way she was designed to behave?
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Nov, 2013 01:23 pm
@Pasture Timmy,
Pasture Timmy wrote:
So God designed Eve in such a way, that she would sin when enticed by the Serpent.
Your conclusion is not in harmony with the perfection of God's work. The Rock, perfect is his activity, for all his ways are justice. (Deuteronomy 32:4)
 

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