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What is free will?

Forums: Free Will, Philosophy, Logic, Determinism, Definition
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Pasture Timmy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Nov, 2013 02:00 pm
@Cyracuz,
Cyracuz wrote:

In that case free will would be a myth. It seems to me that no choice can be uninfluenced.


Yes, that "will" is free is an illusion.
0 Replies
 
Pasture Timmy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Nov, 2013 02:26 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

"all humans are influenced by their genes, culture and environment."

Those are good points in favor of my conclusion, that "will" being free is an illusion.
Quote:

What we choose to do in those parameters can be considered subjective free choice.

And the illusion of "will" being "free" lives on.
0 Replies
 
Pasture Timmy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Nov, 2013 02:29 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

In the grand scheme of things, we must remember that our entire legal system operates on the assumption of free will.

Which is irrelevant as to whether "will" is "free" or not.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Nov, 2013 03:41 pm
@Pasture Timmy,
neologist wrote:
In the grand scheme of things, we must remember that our entire legal system operates on the assumption of free will.
Pasture Timmy wrote:
Which is irrelevant as to whether "will" is "free" or not.
While God certainly has the power to look into our moral outcome, He has no more obligation to do so than you or I have to read the last page of the whodunit. In that way God guarantees to us our freedom from predestination.
Pasture Timmy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Nov, 2013 04:47 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:
"While God certainly has the power to look into our moral outcome"


Please give an example of "God looking into our moral outcome", so that I might better understand what you mean.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Nov, 2013 04:50 pm
@Pasture Timmy,
neologist wrote:
"While God certainly has the power to look into our moral outcome"
Pasture Timmy wrote:
Please give an example of "God looking into our moral outcome", so that I might better understand what you mean.
He knew Esau before he and Jacob were born
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Nov, 2013 04:54 pm
@neologist,
He also knew whether Esau would go to heaven or hell. So, what's the use?
Pasture Timmy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Nov, 2013 05:11 pm
@neologist,
Please give an example of "God looking into our moral outcome", so that I might better understand what you mean.
Quote:

He knew Esau before he and Jacob were born


What does that have to do with "moral outcome"?
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Nov, 2013 06:41 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Esau is not in either place
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Nov, 2013 06:45 pm
@Pasture Timmy,
I thought the term would be self explanatory, as in knowing our moral choices in advance, since, IMO, that is the essential element of our free will
Pasture Timmy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Nov, 2013 08:02 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

"as in knowing our moral choices in advance, since, IMO, that is the essential element of our free will"


Does God sometimes choose to know our moral choices in advance?
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Nov, 2013 08:51 pm
@Pasture Timmy,
Are you worried?
Pasture Timmy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Nov, 2013 09:39 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Are you worried?


No.
Does God sometimes choose to know our moral choices in advance?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Nov, 2013 11:56 pm
@neologist,
You,
Quote:
Esau is not in either place
.

That's because you have finally come to realize that the stories in the bible are fiction. Mr. Green
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Nov, 2013 01:02 am
@cicerone imposter,
I wrote:
Esau is not in either place
cicerone imposter wrote:
That's because you have finally come to realize that the stories in the bible are fiction. Mr. Green
Actually, that is what the Bible teaches.
And, that is what I have been saying all along.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Nov, 2013 01:04 am
@Pasture Timmy,
Pasture Timmy wrote:
Does God sometimes choose to know our moral choices in advance?
He could.
He did in the case of Esau.
That he does not for the rest of mankind is among his greatest gifts to us.
Pasture Timmy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Nov, 2013 09:26 am
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Pasture Timmy wrote:
Does God sometimes choose to know our moral choices in advance?

He did in the case of Esau.


How about the case of Adam and Eve?
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Nov, 2013 10:41 am
@Pasture Timmy,
Pasture Timmy wrote:
Does God sometimes choose to know our moral choices in advance?
neologist wrote:
He did in the case of Esau.
Pasture Timmy wrote:
How about the case of Adam and Eve?
There are many who believe that.
Were it true, then God could be held accountable for all the misery humans have experienced in the past 6000 or so years.
Jesus obviously did not believe that. He indicted Satan.
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.(John 8:44)
Pasture Timmy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Nov, 2013 03:39 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Pasture Timmy wrote:
Does God sometimes choose to know our moral choices in advance?
neologist wrote:
He did in the case of Esau.
Pasture Timmy wrote:
How about the case of Adam and Eve?

neologist wrote:
Jesus obviously did not believe that.


So God was the cause of all things, but he chose to not know the outcome of all things.
Was God disappointed that Adam and Eve ate of the forbidden fruit?
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Nov, 2013 04:16 pm
@Pasture Timmy,
Pasture Timmy wrote:
Was God disappointed that Adam and Eve ate of the forbidden fruit?
Read Genesis, chapter 3
 

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