What is free will?

@Fil Albuquerque,

Fil Albuquerque wrote:

...you people are a disgrace to the whole scientific endeavour of human knowledge...in fact what is ineffable is the degree of sheer stupidity giving a bad name to Philosophy due to the huge amount of bullshiters infesting the formal Academic medium related with Philosophy...thankfully there are alternatives...

Give me an example in math or science or any other discipline that is 'known' to be absolutely true and corresponds to the real world not just abstract theories.

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@igm,

Curious...now you are the one reporting a transcendent Noumena...I knew you would fall for it...what appears IS what appears...so what? Are you talking of something else? How can you?

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@igm,

Descriptions of reality don't have to be exaustive to be true...in fact any description reports a true human and very real experience...whether it reports something more then subjective experience is irrelevant to its objective existence...

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@Fil Albuquerque,

Most often I see "the real world" to be little more than (human) abstract theory. There is no thing-in-itself, only mental activity, whatever that is. Whenever I feel the urge to rest on some absolute FrankApisan "Reality"--even to designate mental activity "Reality" (which it is and is not), I take to meditating or working on one of my on-going abstract paintings. Liberating.

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@JLNobody,

You see my point was that phenomena on close scrutiny is a thing in itself, epiphenomena ! Curiously enough the only way to talk about the ineffable character of reality is accomplished by referring to a MUST exist transcendent Noumena, a state of reality...if that is abandoned there is no ineffable to speak off...either way you guys lose the point trying to be made.

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@igm,

Quote:

Of course it does... it has to.. or society unravels... but it doesn't make it true... and it isn't... it kinda works and that's good enough for day-to-day life.

It doesn't make it false either, so given the social importance of free will, the least we can ask for is that metaphysics be given a minor role in deliberating about it. Unproven, and unprovable metaphysical fantasies such as determinism should be given the lack of importance they deserve, compared to the centrality of free will in our current scientific, legal, economic and political systems.

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@neologist,

Are you SERIOUSLY using a ******* figment of your imagination to stress a measurable point?
FFS!

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@Olivier5,

Makes me wonder how anybody can assert determinism when our social, legal, political, economic, and health issues are determined by our genes and our environment. .

Why does anybody with a toothache go see their dentist? Was the toothache predetermined?

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@cicerone imposter,

Yes! But just not by you.

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@mark noble,

If I practiced poor teeth hygiene, I can expect to suffer from a toothache.
However, I try to take good care of my teeth, and get regular cleaning and dentist eval done.

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@mark noble,

mark noble wrote:

Are you SERIOUSLY using a ******* figment of your imagination to stress a measurable point?
FFS!

Do you have any point to make other than
to display your sadly deficient vocabulary?

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@coolcubed,

is there free will? this is the right question. yes, free will exists within the prison of conditioning.

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@cat felino,

"Prison of conditioning?"

We are the product of our "social environment." What are you talking about?

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@cicerone imposter,

We are the product of our "social environment. >>

True, but our social environment is conditioned behavior (brainwashed), illusions most are stuck with the rest of their lives.

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@Rickoshay75,

You wrote,

Quote:

True, but our social environment is conditioned behavior (brainwashed), illusions most are stuck with the rest of their lives.

Yes, and that's the natural progression for the majority of humans. What else is there?

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Free will is the ability to make uninfluenced choices.

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@Pasture Timmy,

In that case free will would be a myth. It seems to me that no choice can be uninfluenced.

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@Pasture Timmy,

I'm not sure how you arrived at your conclusion, but all humans are influenced by their genes, culture and environment.

What we choose to do in those parameters can be considered subjective free choice.

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In the grand scheme of things, we must remember that our entire legal system operates on the assumption of free will.

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What is free will?

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