President Obama just made the best speech of his life

@Robert Gentel,

Quote:

Taming the runway defense industry is where he is failing abjectly

The failure of the super committee may well do that. They will get cuts unless congress and the President pass a law to not do cuts.

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@parados,

Except for the part where it won't. It was, however, a very clever clause and it will do it's job, which is to protect the Democrats' own sacred cows. I expect any cuts on either side to be symbolic at best.

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@Robert Gentel,

I'd be surprised if they actually do reverse the sequester, for a few reasons:

1, Obama has publicly stated that he'll veto any cute attempts to do so

2, about a third of the GOP caucus in the House has been talking about cutting the military anyway for a while now as a cost-savings measure

3, the cuts are illusory anyway - they are, as usual in Washington, cuts to the growth of the military budget. The armed forces will still have billions more every year for the next ten years than they did the year before.

The real showdown battle coming up are the extension of the Bush tax cuts. Popular opinion has been on the side of allowing them to go up for the rich - and many people, like me, think they should go up on everyone - and the GOP will be desperate to deal to keep that from happening. Obama may be able to use this leverage to actually get some concessions out of the House.

And I think it's going to be tough for Mitt to run on preserving tax cuts for the rich during a time of fiscal crisis, I mean, I would be slavering if I were Obama's team, and we were able to force him into a position like that. And indeed, these themes were definitely present in Obama's speech that this thread was named after.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

I'm really enjoying the Cyclo v Robert exchange, even though both individuals blithely assume that all Republicans are scum.

In Cyclo we have the truly partisan Democrat, the E.J. Dionne of A2K: All Democrats goood! All Republicans baaad!

I have specifically, and in several posts in this thread, mentioned that several Dems in the Senate teamed up with the GOP to block many of Obama's plans; and that one of his biggest failings was that he assumed he could trust his own party. That the Dems don't have the party unity that the Republicans do, and he was wrong to believe that.

How do you square that with your pronouncement of my good/evil worldview? It seems to be belied by an actual reading of what I've written.

Quote:

One has to admire the tenacity of Cyclo though. He's a Dem Hack, but a damned dedicated one.

I don't believe all Republicans are scum, but many of them act in a scummy manner on a regular basis.

Cycloptichorn

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The good news: America will flush this turd (Obama) out of office with the 2012 election.

The bad news: Think of the terrible mess that will be inherited by the new republican president.

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What's interesting is that Teddy Roosevelt was a 'Progressive' Republican!

What ever happened to those folks ?

Today I would call them the Obstructionists party.

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@Cycloptichorn,

Quote:

Re: Finn dAbuzz (Post 4817248)
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Quote:
I'm really enjoying the Cyclo v Robert exchange, even though both individuals blithely assume that all Republicans are scum.

In Cyclo we have the truly partisan Democrat, the E.J. Dionne of A2K: All Democrats goood! All Republicans baaad!

I have specifically, and in several posts in this thread, mentioned that several Dems in the Senate teamed up with the GOP to block many of Obama's plans; and that one of his biggest failings was that he assumed he could trust his own party. That the Dems don't have the party unity that the Republicans do, and he was wrong to believe that.

How do you square that with your pronouncement of my good/evil worldview? It seems to be belied by an actual reading of what I've written.

Finn,
Cyclo is correct...you need to characterize him as "Most Democrats goood! All Republicans (and several Dems) baaad!]

1 Reply

@slkshock7,

Well, that would be more accurate. And is it really that crazy a worldview to hold? I have no doubt whatsoever that you and other Republicans have a view that mirrors mine.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@BumbleBeeBoogie,

Quote:

Obama's speech sounded the theme of inequality of income and opportunity, which the White House sees as a major force in current politics, but it was short on new ideas or specifics for pulling the country out of its economic doldrums.

This clearly demonstrates the incredible disconnect between Obama, the OWS movement and reality. I'm frankly amazed that so many liberals have welcomed this speech as a return to the 2008 Obama. If Obama continues with this strategy, he's virtually guaranteed to lose the election.

It's the economy, stupid...only liberal idealogues will be persuaded to vote for a man more enamored with income equality (and increasing the Govt coffers) than offering solutions to a weak economy and improving the job situation.

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@slkshock7,

Quote:

It's the economy, stupid...only liberal idealogues will be persuaded to vote for a man more enamored with income equality (and increasing the Govt coffers) than offering solutions to a weak economy and improving the job situation.

Well, they are helped out tremendously by the fact that none of the Republicans have a viable plan to improve the economy in any way; and all of them are absolutely committed to cutting taxes on the rich even farther. In this political climate, that's a non-starter.

I would remind you, Silk, that polling clearly and repeatedly shows that majorities (over 60% of Americans) agree with Obama on these issues.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Quote:

I would remind you, Silk, that polling clearly and repeatedly shows that majorities (over 60% of Americans) agree with Obama on these issues.

Those same pollees have been telling Obama for two years that they'd prefer jobs to speeches on income equality.

Republicans might not have a viable plan either but lack of a plan will hurt Obama far more than the Republicans. It's pretty simple...if you bet on a horse and he fails you, most folks will try a different horse on their next bet.

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@slkshock7,

Equalizing income sounds ever so much better than steal from the rich and give to the poor. Same thing, but it does sound better.

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@Cycloptichorn,

Quote:

I have no doubt whatsoever that you and other Republicans have a view that mirrors mine.

Well, not quite...I have a problem with stereotyping any group, even Dems. My worldview is more along the lines that "Most Republicans are good and most Democrats are bad". There are good apples in every bunch i.e.. Dems Lieberman, Nelson, Webb, Manchin in the Senate, Schuler, Lipinski, Boren, McIntyre in the House.

If I have no other information, I do automatically have a predisposition for Republicans and against Dems but routinely find that predisposition to be wrong.

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@slkshock7,

slkshock7 wrote:

Quote:
I would remind you, Silk, that polling clearly and repeatedly shows that majorities (over 60% of Americans) agree with Obama on these issues.

Those same pollees have been telling Obama for two years that they'd prefer jobs to speeches on income equality.

And what exactly is Obama supposed to do to create those jobs? Your caucus won't let any bill move forward which is designed to help, for the simple reason that they don't want the economy to improve heading into an election year - and that's a fact.

The House GOP has put forth zero job creation bills. The closest they can say they have come to this are attempts to cut taxes for the rich; something which produces no jobs whatsoever.

I would also challenge your statement somewhat - there was no real national conversation about income equality going on a year ago. It was all Austerity, all the time.

Quote:

Republicans might not have a viable plan either but lack of a plan will hurt Obama far more than the Republicans. It's pretty simple...if you bet on a horse and he fails you, most folks will try a different horse on their next bet.

Depends on how lame the other horse is Laughing

I highly doubt that anyone is amped up about voting for Romney or Gingrich, and most of the Republicans I see or talk to don't actually think that either can beat Obama.

Cycloptichorn

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@Cycloptichorn,

Quote:

And what exactly is Obama supposed to do to create those jobs

He was supposed to do it almost three years ago, when it was possible to get the money,but he was not much interested in jobs back then as he preferred to spend money on other things....

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:

And what exactly is Obama supposed to do to create those jobs

He was supposed to do it almost three years ago, when it was possible to get the money,but he was not much interested in jobs back then as he preferred to spend money on other things....

What, exactly, was he 'supposed to do' back then?

Cycloptichorn

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@roger,

Quote:

Equalizing income sounds ever so much better than steal from the rich and give to the poor. Same thing, but it does sound better.

True...and fixation on stealing from the rich to give to the poor never got Robin Hood to the House of Lords. Neither will it get Obama a second term in these times.

1 Reply

@slkshock7,

slkshock7 wrote:

Quote:
Equalizing income sounds ever so much better than steal from the rich and give to the poor. Same thing, but it does sound better.

True...and fixation on stealing from the rich to give to the poor never got Robin Hood to the House of Lords. Neither will it get Obama a second term in these times.

Raising taxes on the rich isn't stealing anything from them. You might believe it is, but you're simply wrong when you say that. I know it sounds cute though.

Tell me - are you confident that Obama is going to lose to either Mitt or Newt?

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Quote:

Your caucus won't let any bill move forward which is designed to help, for the simple reason that they don't want the economy to improve heading into an election year - and that's a fact.

Not entirely true...the Republican House has produced a number of bills designed to create jobs and improve the economy. Reid has refused to bring any of these to the Senate floor.

Therefore I would content that the Senate doesn't want the economy to improve. Neither party in that body is willing to compromise their position on taxing millionaires, and therefore both parties should, and no doubt, will be blamed next Nov.

With 23 Dem Senate seats up for reelection and only 10 Repub seats, the Dems stand to lose more in this game of chicken.

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@Cycloptichorn,

Quote:

Tell me - are you confident that Obama is going to lose to either Mitt or Newt?

Yes, I think Obama will lose, no matter whom the Republicans put forward. In 2008, based on the timely collapse of the housing industry and resultant economic disaster, Obama (actually any Dem that won the primary) was a shoo-in for the Presidency. But after three years with mediocre accomplishments and failing to fix the economy, I think Obama is facing an insurmountable headwind.

The shoe is on the other foot....and the Republicans will be the beneficiaries.

1 Reply

President Obama just made the best speech of his life

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