16
   

How deep did coverup go in Penn State child sex abuse case?

 
 
Rockhead
 
  3  
Sun 13 Nov, 2011 12:16 pm
@Ragman,
here's what keeps running through my head. (tvma)

McQuery is now the PSU master recruiter...

a big part of his spiel is how Penn State is one of only two universities never to have any NCAA troubles.

I wonder how long it took him to learn to say all of that **** about how clean and wonderful the place was, and not see Coach Jerry ******* some poor kid in the showers in his head...
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Sun 13 Nov, 2011 12:32 pm
@Rockhead,
Quote:
I wonder how long it took him to learn to say all of that **** about how clean and wonderful the place was, and not see Coach Jerry ******* some poor kid in the showers in his head..
And not see the University Leadership do much about it. It was assumed that at that point Paterno had earned the right to pick the next coach, and if so Sandusky getting told that it would not be him and soon after leaving the coaching team indicates to me that Paterno did more than anyone else to sanction his protege Sandusky.

We need to hear from Paterno about why Sandusky was cut loose...was it a problem at the 1999 Alamo Bowl? Also, how could it happen after all of the 98-99 events that he could he still have enough access to rape a boy in the fooball team shower in 2008?
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Mon 14 Nov, 2011 02:51 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Nov. 14 (Bloomberg) -- Jack Raykovitz, who for 28 years headed the social-services agency founded by a Penn State University football coach accused of child sex abuse, has resigned, the Second Mile foundation said in a news release.

The board accepted the resignation of Raykovitz yesterday and said in the release that “both Dr. Raykovitz and the board believe this is in the best interests of the organization.”

“I have submitted, and the board has accepted, my resignation as president/CEO of the Second Mile,” Raykovitz said in a written statement released at the Second Mile office in State College. “Providing any statement beyond that sentence takes the focus from where it should be -- on the children, young adults and families who have been impacted.”

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-11-14/head-of-foundation-linked-to-penn-state-abuse-scandal-quits.html

It is about damn time...is any one keeping score, what is it.....6 who turned away now cashiered, 20+ more to go?
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  4  
Tue 15 Nov, 2011 04:46 pm
The latest from Mike McQueary:
Quote:

According to the grand jury report, the graduate assistant said he saw a boy, whose age he estimated at 10 years old, "being subjected to anal intercourse" by a naked Sandusky in a shower at the Penn State football building in March 2002. The graduate assistant left "immediately," was "distraught" and called his father, according to the presentment. His father told him to leave the building and come to his home, according to the presentment.

In the email obtained by The Morning Call, dated Nov. 8, McQueary said "I did stop it, not physically, but made sure it was stopped when I left that locker room."

"No one can imagine my thoughts or wants to be in my shoes for those 30-45 seconds," McQueary wrote. "Trust me."

I can imagine at least one ten-year-old boy who wouldn't have minded trading places with you, Mike.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Tue 15 Nov, 2011 05:04 pm
@joefromchicago,
I sure as hell don't want to be in his shoes. He's a pariah. His shoes could easily walk him to suicide.

How many of us face such a clearly defining moment?

We all have one or another but rarely this dramatic.

He is a pathetic wretch, not least of all because there was so little a downside to him knocking Sandusky on his perverted ass or just yelling into the shower "Stop it you ******* monster!"

People who have broken under torture have killed themselves.

If he isn't in a living hell each and every day, he is even more of a sick bastard than I currently imagine him to be.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Tue 15 Nov, 2011 05:26 pm
@joefromchicago,
Quote:
I can imagine at least one ten-year-old boy who wouldn't have minded trading places with you, Mike
So McQueary is sounding like he did turn tail and leave as has been reported , but is also claiming that he stopped this rape??!! How is this possible? I dont think it is, I think we know that this man was tested and he came up short, but that he can't get his mind around that fact.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Wed 16 Nov, 2011 03:33 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
The State College police chief said Wednesday that former Penn State graduate assistant Mike McQueary never reported allegations of child sex abuse against Jerry Sandusky to the department.

"Absolutely not," State College Police Chief Tom King told NBC News when asked if McQueary had ever come to them with allegations concerning Sandusky, a former defensive coordinator for the Penn State football team.
"We don't have any records of him coming to us," King said.

McQueary, now an assistant football coach, wrote in a Nov. 8 email to a friend that he stopped an alleged sexual assault by Sandusky on a 10-year-old boy in 2002 and discussed it with police afterward.
"I did stop it, not physically ... but made sure it was stopped when I left that locker room ... I did have discussions with police and with the official at the university in charge of police .... no one can imagine my thoughts or wants to be in my shoes for those 30-45 seconds ... trust me," he wrote


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45321304/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/#.TsQrpz2VpkY

Not that I had any doubt that he is slime before now..
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Thu 17 Nov, 2011 06:21 pm
@hawkeye10,


Gotta love South Park, these boys are not afraid of offending anyone!
0 Replies
 
wmwcjr
 
  4  
Fri 18 Nov, 2011 01:57 am
More fodder for discussion ...

Quote:
Penn State and the 'Bystander Effect': Would you have done more?

How do you explain the failure of college officials to report the alleged sexual abuse of boys by a Penn State coach? People are really good at self-deception, writes David Brooks. We inflate our own virtues and predict we will behave more nobly than we actually do.

By David Brooks
Syndicated columnist

First came the atrocity, then came the vanity. The atrocity is what Jerry Sandusky has been accused of doing at Penn State. The vanity is the outraged reaction of a zillion commentators over the past week, whose indignation is based on the assumption that if they had been in Joe Paterno's shoes, or assistant coach Mike McQueary's shoes, they would have behaved better. They would have taken action and stopped any sexual assaults.

Unfortunately, none of us can safely make that assumption. Over the course of history — during the Holocaust, the Rwandan genocide or the street beatings that happen in American neighborhoods — the same pattern has emerged. Many people do not intervene. Very often they see but they don't see.

Some people simply can't process the horror in front of them. Some people suffer from what the psychologists call Normalcy Bias. When they find themselves in some unsettling circumstance, they shut down and pretend everything is normal.

Some people suffer from Motivated Blindness; they don't see what is not in their interest to see. Some people don't look at the things that make them uncomfortable. In one experiment, people were shown pictures, some of which contained sexual imagery. Machines tracked their eye movements. The people who were uncomfortable with sex never let their eyes dart over to the uncomfortable parts of the pictures.

As Daniel Goleman wrote in his book "Vital Lies, Simple Truths," "In order to avoid looking, some element of the mind must have known first what the picture contained, so that it knew what to avoid. The mind somehow grasps what is going on and rushes a protective filter into place, thus steering awareness away from what threatens."

Even in cases where people consciously register some offense, they still often don't intervene. In research done at Penn State and published in 1999, students were asked if they would make a stink if someone made a sexist remark in their presence. Half said yes. When researchers arranged for that to happen, only 16 percent protested.

In another experiment at a different school, 68 percent of students insisted they would refuse to answer if they were asked offensive questions during a job interview. But none actually objected when asked questions like, "Do you think it is appropriate for women to wear bras to work?"

So many people do nothing while witnessing ongoing crimes, psychologists have a name for it: the Bystander Effect. The more people are around to witness the crime, the less likely they are to intervene.

Online you can find videos of savage beatings, with dozens of people watching blandly. The Kitty Genovese case from the '60s is mostly apocryphal, but hundreds of other cases are not. A woman was recently murdered at a yoga clothing store in Maryland while employees at the Apple Store next door heard the disturbing noises but did not investigate. Ilan Halimi, a French Jew, was tortured for 24 days by 20 Moroccan kidnappers, with the full knowledge of neighbors. Nobody did anything, and Halimi eventually was murdered.

People are really good at self-deception. We attend to the facts we like and suppress the ones we don't. We inflate our own virtues and predict we will behave more nobly than we actually do. As Max H. Bazerman and Ann E. Tenbrunsel write in their book, "Blind Spots," "When it comes time to make a decision, our thoughts are dominated by thoughts of how we want to behave; thoughts of how we should behave disappear."

In centuries past, people built moral systems that acknowledged this weakness. These systems emphasized our sinfulness. They reminded people of the evil within themselves. Life was seen as an inner struggle against the selfish forces inside. These vocabularies made people aware of how their weaknesses manifested themselves and how to exercise discipline over them. These systems gave people categories with which to process savagery and scripts to follow when they confronted it. They helped people make moral judgments and hold people responsible amid our frailties.

But we're not Puritans anymore. We live in a society oriented around our inner wonderfulness. So when something atrocious happens, people look for some artificial, outside force that must have caused it — like the culture of college football, or some other favorite bogey. People look for laws that can be changed so it never happens again.

Commentators ruthlessly vilify all involved from the island of their own innocence. Everyone gets to proudly ask: "How could they have let this happen?"

The proper question is: How can we ourselves overcome our natural tendency to evade and self-deceive. That was the proper question after Abu Ghraib, Bernie Madoff, the Wall Street follies and a thousand other scandals. But it's a question this society has a hard time asking because the most seductive evasion is the one that leads us to deny the underside of our own nature.

David Brooks is a regular columnist for The New York Times.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/opinion/2016775000_brooks16.html
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Fri 18 Nov, 2011 04:16 am
@wmwcjr,
THANK U FOR THE ARTICLE, BILL; INTERESTING.
wmwcjr wrote:
More fodder for discussion ...

Quote:
Penn State and the 'Bystander Effect': Would you have done more?

How do you explain the failure of college officials to report the alleged sexual abuse of boys by a Penn State coach? People are really good at self-deception, writes David Brooks. We inflate our own virtues and predict we will behave more nobly than we actually do.

By David Brooks
Syndicated columnist


David Brooks wrote:
First came the atrocity, then came the vanity. The atrocity is what Jerry Sandusky has been accused of doing at Penn State. The vanity is the outraged reaction of a zillion commentators over the past week, whose indignation is based on the assumption that if they had been in Joe Paterno's shoes, or assistant coach Mike McQueary's shoes, they would have behaved better. They would have taken action and stopped any sexual assaults.
If I had been in Joe P.'s position, I 'd not have arrogated unto myself
the decision of whether to call the police, knowing that higher authority
might deem that decision to belong to THEM, not to me,
but I 'd have called the alleged offender in for an interview.
Accordingly, he 'd have known that he was under scrutiny and shoud not persist
in any such alleged conduct. Then I 'd pass the information along, as Joe P. did.

As to the conduct of Mike McQ., there were a few options,
depending upon the circumstances. If the victim were screaming n anally bleeding
on the floor, u coud just shoot the sodomite.
Of course, wounding his medula oblongata woud swiftly end the conflict.

Lethal wounds 'd not be necessary, necessarily.
I imagine that a bloody hole in his foot woud end the sodomy,
but less force might well be sufficient.

If no sodomy were observable,
then less aggressive measures might be in order;
e.g., just approach n strike up a conversation:
"Good evening, Coach Sandusky! Who is this gentleman u have here?
Sir, my name is David. R u OK?? Do u need any help this evening ?"

If he answers affirmatively: escort him away.







David Brooks wrote:
Unfortunately, none of us can safely make that assumption. Over the course of history — during the Holocaust, the Rwandan genocide or the street beatings that happen in American neighborhoods — the same pattern has emerged. Many people do not intervene. Very often they see but they don't see.

Some people simply can't process the horror in front of them. Some people suffer from what the psychologists call Normalcy Bias. When they find themselves in some unsettling circumstance, they shut down and pretend everything is normal.

Some people suffer from Motivated Blindness; they don't see what is not in their interest to see. Some people don't look at the things that make them uncomfortable. In one experiment, people were shown pictures, some of which contained sexual imagery. Machines tracked their eye movements. The people who were uncomfortable with sex never let their eyes dart over to the uncomfortable parts of the pictures.

As Daniel Goleman wrote in his book "Vital Lies, Simple Truths," "In order to avoid looking, some element of the mind must have known first what the picture contained, so that it knew what to avoid. The mind somehow grasps what is going on and rushes a protective filter into place, thus steering awareness away from what threatens."

Even in cases where people consciously register some offense, they still often don't intervene. In research done at Penn State and published in 1999, students were asked if they would make a stink if someone made a sexist remark in their presence. Half said yes. When researchers arranged for that to happen, only 16 percent protested.
A lot depends on the specifics of the circumstances, e.g., how "sexist" is being defined.
A sexist remark qua either gender might well be true.






David Brooks wrote:
In another experiment at a different school, 68 percent of students insisted they would refuse to answer if they were asked offensive questions during a job interview, but none actually objected when asked questions like, "Do you think it is appropriate for women to wear bras to work?"

So many people do nothing while witnessing ongoing crimes, psychologists have a name for it: the Bystander Effect. The more people are around to witness the crime, the less likely they are to intervene.
A lot depends on WHAT the crime IS.
The witness might approve of the crime, depending on what it is.





David Brooks wrote:
Online you can find videos of savage beatings, with dozens of people watching blandly. The Kitty Genovese case from the '60s is mostly apocryphal, but hundreds of other cases are not. A woman was recently murdered at a yoga clothing store in Maryland while employees at the Apple Store next door heard the disturbing noises but did not investigate. Ilan Halimi, a French Jew, was tortured for 24 days by 20 Moroccan kidnappers, with the full knowledge of neighbors. Nobody did anything, and Halimi eventually was murdered.
The author implies, without evidence, that those nabors were on the side of the murder victim.

Is that good journalism??






David Brooks wrote:
People are really good at self-deception. We attend to the facts we like and suppress the ones we don't. We inflate our own virtues and predict we will behave more nobly than we actually do.
Do we all AGREE on what is "NOBLE" ????? I don't think we do.




David Brooks wrote:
As Max H. Bazerman and Ann E. Tenbrunsel write in their book, "Blind Spots," "When it comes time to make a decision, our thoughts are dominated by thoughts of how we want to behave; thoughts of how we should behave disappear."

In centuries past, people built moral systems that acknowledged this weakness. These systems emphasized our sinfulness. They reminded people of the evil within themselves. Life was seen as an inner struggle against the selfish forces inside.
FOR THE RECORD:
I wanna support selfishness in everyone. I encourage that.
What we all need is MORE selfishness!!!






David Brooks wrote:
These vocabularies made people aware of how their weaknesses manifested themselves and how to exercise discipline over them. These systems gave people categories with which to process savagery and scripts to follow when they confronted it. They helped people make moral judgments and hold people responsible amid our frailties.

But we're not Puritans anymore. We live in a society oriented around our inner wonderfulness.
Wonderfulness = SELFISHNESS!




David Brooks wrote:
So when something atrocious happens, people look for some artificial, outside force that must have caused it — like the culture of college football, or some other favorite bogey. People look for laws that can be changed so it never happens again.

Commentators ruthlessly vilify all involved from the island of their own innocence. Everyone gets to proudly ask: "How could they have let this happen?"

The proper question is: How can we ourselves overcome our natural tendency to evade and self-deceive. That was the proper question after Abu Ghraib,
Again, FOR THE RECORD:
During the Second World War, if I knew of the OSS torturing nazis
for information, or during the Third World War, if I knew of the CIA
or the Indonesians or the Chileans torturing & killing commies,
I 'd have been of NO help to the nazis nor the commies.
My loyalty was and is against their interests.





David






David Brooks wrote:
Bernie Madoff, the Wall Street follies and a thousand other scandals. But it's a question this society has a hard time asking because the most seductive evasion is the one that leads us to deny the underside of our own nature.

David Brooks is a regular columnist for The New York Times.
0 Replies
 
wmwcjr
 
  2  
Fri 18 Nov, 2011 08:49 pm
I'm about to look like a dummy. My purpose in posting the David Brooks column was to encourage more discussion in this thread. I was not endorsing the column. I actually disagree with Brooks on a number of points, but I don't have time to say what they are. So, again, I'm the dummy of this thread. Embarrassed



In the meantime, here's another online article ...

Quote:
Sandusky case triggers pain well beyond campus
As adults, men suffer nightmares, anger, anxiety from childhood abuse





By Kari Huus
Reporter

msnbc.com
updated 11/16/2011 2:01:09 PM ET



As the Penn State sex abuse scandal unfolds — ghastly detail by detail — on front pages, the airwaves and Twitter accounts, the news can be especially devastating for one group in particular: former victims of sexual abuse.

“Another night of triggers and flashbacks,” writes a forum member on MaleSurvivor.org, a website devoted to healing male victims of sexual abuse. “… I felt him all over me and my arms are scratched as I try to get the feeling of his hands off me. … I think all the (Penn State) news set the triggers off, and now I am like a zombie, trying to recover and move forward today.”

“I never met Jerry Sandusky, but feel I know him all too well,” writes another member of the forum, referring to the university’s former defensive coordinator who stands accused of sexually molesting at least eight young boys. “I dealt with my own ‘Jerry’ when I was 12 or 13. … Now that he is sated and I am long forgotten, I'm still picking up the pieces.”

“This whole thing is devastating me. These boys are lost in the details ... just as most of us here were,” the member added.

Psychologists say that any sex abuse victim — man or woman — may find that news of the Penn State case sparks painful memories. But the way this case is unfolding strikes an especially deep chord with men.

“It can be very triggering of either their own memories — they may get flashbacks — or they may get angry again,” said Richard Gartner, a psychologist and psychoanalyst in New York, and spokesman for Malesurvivor.org. Some men may have to limit their news consumption, and maybe avoid watching football to avoid a panic attack or bout of depression, he said.

“It is re-traumatizing for them — more so to the extent that they believe that this is being handled wrong … and ignoring the needs of the victims.”

Different experience for boys
Sexual abuse has a different impact on boys than on girls, and they deal with it differently because of socialization, experts say.

“Men aren’t supposed to be victims. Men are supposed to be strong,” said Jim Hopper, clinical instructor of psychology at Harvard Medical School. “A man says I’m not a real man, because I let someone do this to me. I should have been tougher. Even after years of therapy they say this.”

Girls who are abused by men are psychologically damaged, to be sure, experts say, but boys abused by men often come to question their sexual identity and orientation.

“If they were sexually abused by a man, there’s this whole stigma — does that mean I’m gay, or did he do it to me because I look gay?” says Hopper.

Another difference: Boys who are forced into sexual acts may have an erection — a physiological response which makes them all the more confused and ashamed of the encounter, Gartner says.

The women’s movement helped bring sexual assault of females into the public eye — and led to tougher penalties against attackers, more policy aimed at prevention and better access to care for victims. The focus on sexual abuse of boys came nearly 20 years later, when hundreds of childhood victims went public with stories of abuse by Catholic priests, according to Gartner.

Shame, silence, secrecy
Still, the shame and stigma makes it less common for boys to report abuse and seek help than girls, studies show.

“Men tend to come into treatment much later in life,” said Gartner. “Usually they are in their 30s, 40s or 50s — occasionally in their 70s — never having spoken about this.”

Their reluctance to talk about abuse is partly to blame for the perception that sexual abuse of boys is rare, Gartner said.

Research shows that about one in six boys are sexually abused before they are 16 years old, according to Hopper, a founding board member of the nonprofit organization 1in6, which aims to help men deal with abuse they experienced as children, and provides comprehensive resources on 1in6.org.

The number for girls is one in four. The statistics do not include verbal harassment or other forms of non-physical sexual abuse, such as forcing a child to watch a sexual act.

Reports of sexual abuse by boys are still more likely to be dismissed, researchers say, which can intensify the victim’s pain and difficulty later in life.

"Boys who are sexually abused are mostly disbelieved, or it is minimized," said Gartner. "They're told, 'just get over it'."

"They learn that nobody’s safe," said Hopper. "That’s really devastating. … that people who were supposed to protect me are not going to help me, they are blaming me!"

That perception by a child can lead to a wide array of problems as they grow older, including depression, anxiety, emotional numbing, substance abuse, and difficulty forming healthy relationships.

PTSD in high gear
Robert Brown, 51, who is now open about his story, was repeatedly sexually assaulted over the course of seven years when he was a child. He says the perpetrators were older boys who were favored because they were top athletes in his small New Hampshire town, while his plight was ignored by adults.

Brown did not acknowledge the problem to anyone until four years ago, when he was blindsided by a severe bout of post-traumatic stress.

Now he is a child protection activist, and shares his story with other members on the MaleSurvivor.org forum, many of whom keep their abuse secret. He also gives talks on the issue.

“In my lifetime and in my time with all other survivors that I know, the Penn State case is the most earth-shattering one for us to face,” Brown said in an interview.

“Probably because of the authority abused and the trust abused by the sports program and by Jerry Sandusky. It gets worse when we see that it’s underprivileged kids being so badly abused as if they are throwaway people," he added.

“We identify very, very strongly with these boys. And we identify with the poor handling of this. To think there are 15-year-old cases that have never been dealt with," Brown said. “It kicks off the (post-traumatic stress) into high gear — nightmares, flashbacks, extreme depression. It’s been some of the worst few days of my life emotionally.”

Gartner said that while the Penn State case has clearly caused pain and anguish for men struggling with the aftermath of abuse, it does demonstrate that perceptions have changed since the 1980s, when he started treating sexually abused men.

“Before the (Catholic) church scandal, even in professional meetings, people rolled their eyes, feeling that (sexual abuse of boys) happened rarely,” said Gartner. “Now, nobody seems to be saying it doesn’t happen. It does give people courage to come forward and disclose and get help, and that’s positive.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45314171/ns/us_news-life/t/sandusky-case-triggers-pain-well-beyond-campus/
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Fri 18 Nov, 2011 09:06 pm
@wmwcjr,
Quote:
I'm about to look like a dummy. My purpose in posting the David Brooks column was to encourage more discussion in this thread. I was not endorsing the column. I actually disagree with Brooks on a number of points, but I don't have time to say what they are. So, again, I'm the dummy of this thread.
What is dumb about linking to an interesting and seldom voiced viewpoint on the thread topic? Is it by chance that you transmitted words and ideas that the bullies do not want transmitted and thereby earning you an ass-whipping?

I think it is. I further think that it is time that you learned how to stand up to the bullies.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Fri 18 Nov, 2011 09:10 pm
@wmwcjr,
I think your introductory statement made it clear you were presenting something to discuss - I don't think it said anything about your agreement/disagreement with the author.

ya done good
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Sat 19 Nov, 2011 02:13 am
@wmwcjr,
wmwcjr wrote:
I'm about to look like a dummy. My purpose in posting the David Brooks column was to encourage more discussion in this thread. I was not endorsing the column. I actually disagree with Brooks on a number of points, but I don't have time to say what they are. So, again, I'm the dummy of this thread. Embarrassed
It was INTERESTING, Bill.
Again, I thank u for posting it.





David


0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Sun 20 Nov, 2011 01:24 am
Interesting focus on Sandusky on CNN here

http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/19/us/sandusky-memoir-profile/index.html?hpt=hp_c4

I might have been a bit hasty...Sandusky actual comes off as innocent of any desire to transgress upon boys, he comes off as a Micheal Jackson type..IE who loves kids, loves to act like a kid, and who willfully refuses to play by adult rules. The main differences are

1) sandusky being retired in 99 is very difficult to explain without the inclusion of concern about his behaviour

2) unlike Jackson Sandusky has apparently many people who want to claim that he abused them, though the exact nature of the charges and whether there is any evidence is not currently known.

Hopefully Paterno stays alive long enough to help get to the bottom of what really happened here.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Sun 20 Nov, 2011 01:44 am
@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:
Hopefully Paterno stays alive long enough to help get to the bottom of what really happened here.
Was he a witness?? I think not.





David
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Sun 20 Nov, 2011 01:50 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Was he a witness?? I think not.


It looks very clear that Sandusky was pushed out, and it would have to have been Paterno who did it. We need to know why. Did Paterno think that Sandusky was too goofy, not dedicated enough to football, and abuser of kids? a creeper?

Paterno needs to explain.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Sun 20 Nov, 2011 01:53 am
@hawkeye10,

DAVID wrote:
Was he a witness?? I think not.
hawkeye10 wrote:
It looks very clear that Sandusky was pushed out, and it would have to have been Paterno who did it. We need to know why. Did Paterno think that Sandusky was too goofy, not dedicated enough to football, and abuser of kids? a creeper?

Paterno needs to explain.
So, if he fails to explain,
then his needs will remain unsatisfied???
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Sun 20 Nov, 2011 02:02 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Paterno needs to explain


Paterno owes the collective an explanation, if he does not do it then he will have failed us.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Sun 20 Nov, 2011 02:12 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
Paterno needs to explain


Paterno owes the collective an explanation, if he does not do it then he will have failed us.
O, really? How did he acquire that debt??
 

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