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How deep did coverup go in Penn State child sex abuse case?

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2011 01:07 pm
@djjd62,
djjd62 wrote:

so money trumps everything?
No, justice demands that a man be judged on the totality of his actions...Paterno had banked enough good work at Penn State that he deserved to finish the season. I would feel differently if there was credible evidence that he broke a serious criminal statute, but there is not.
wandeljw
 
  4  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2011 01:15 pm
@hawkeye10,
The trustees unanimously voted to fire Paterno. They felt Paterno had failed to act responsibly in a very serious situation. Sandusky's crime spree could have ended sooner if Paterno had taken appropriate action.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2011 01:17 pm
@wandeljw,
wandeljw wrote:

The trustees unanimously voted to fire Paterno. They felt Paterno had failed to act responsibly in a very serious situation. Sandusky's crime spree could have ended sooner if Paterno had taken appropriate action.
None of which negates the argument that Paterno had during his 46 years of service to Penn State earned better than what he got.
engineer
 
  3  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2011 01:23 pm
@hawkeye10,
What action would you consider more appropriate?
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2011 01:24 pm
@hawkeye10,
This case supports my argument that America has become an unjust nation, we have functionally redefined justice as "seeking vengeance for victims", but that is not what justice is.....that is only a small part of what real justice is.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2011 01:26 pm
@engineer,
engineer wrote:

What action would you consider more appropriate?
For the board to condemn his actions here, say that he has done a lot for Penn State and as such will be allowed to retire at the end of the year. This is how we treat military officers who **** up but who have banked good works for America (so long as the offense does not rise to UCMJ action level), and I think this dignity was owed Paterno as well. Paterno is not accused of any crime.
engineer
 
  5  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2011 02:07 pm
@hawkeye10,
I see your position but that would be seen by the non-Penn State community as giving Paterno a pass. To fall back to your military comparison, if a military officer has a significant error in judgement and it's not public knowledge, then yes they get a change of jobs and retirement in the near future. If they screw up publicly they are immediately and publicly removed from command. While your proposal might be more fair given his overall career, he has allowed disrepute to attach to the Penn State name and I don't think the board had much choice. If they use the firing to deny him benefits he would get as a retiree, then I'm more with you, but if this is effectively an immediate retirement, then I don't think the board had any other response that would show sufficient dedication to clear Penn State's name.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  3  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2011 02:16 pm
@hawkeye10,
Perhaps the military's approach should be reconsidered.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  4  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2011 02:20 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

justice demands that a man be judged on the totality of his actions...


you do seem to be living in some sort of alternate reality

I'm not sure whether you're underestimating what he did by under-reporting this, or whether you're overestimating his contribution to society, but either way it seems to be a whack way of thinking.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  4  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2011 02:28 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

No, justice demands that a man be judged on the totality of his actions...[/quote]

If the judgment is of his life or of his career, but it wasn't, it was of his acts or ommissions as they relate to this shameful incident(s).
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2011 02:39 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
If the judgment is of his life or of his career, but it wasn't, it was of his acts or ommissions as they relate to this shameful incident(s)
Which I am arguing against...decisions about personnel should not be based solely on "what have you done for/against me lately" in cases where there there is a track record to consult.
farmerman
 
  4  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2011 02:40 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
I am betting that more than any other person in the history of Penn State that Paterno is responsible for that account balance....yet another reason why he deserved better than he got.
Actually its not so. Several ALumni (Halbouty,Heinz, Carnegie, Jones , Laughlin etc etc) had accumulated large amts of wealth and made generous donations and established endowments years before. I think that you think PAterno should get a pass. I was content to have him announce his retirement at the end of this year but, when he made his initial announcement, he closed his statement with "Now lets beat NEbraska". That was the mpost callous thing he could have said and his welcome was deemed to be worn out. His initial comments were hardly focused on the lives of the victims. He was only focused on his fuckin program.

Well, I think the students, as a lesson in maturation, will see that noone deserves a pass in a situation as this. UNless PAterno has no conscience I hope he realizes that he should have done the right thing years ago.

Otherwise hes just Amoral
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2011 02:42 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:

I'm not sure whether you're underestimating what he did by under-reporting this,
according to the law he did not under report, and it is through law that we the collective inform the individual about what their responsibilities are. If the law was wrong then your beef is with the state, not Paterno.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2011 02:45 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
I think that you think PAterno should get a pass
then you are not paying attention, I said that the board should have publicly condemned Paterno, and then forced him out, at the end of the season. That is not a pass by any stretch of the immagination, I am just not as willing to support running him through the pitch fork immediately as was done.
ehBeth
 
  3  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2011 02:47 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
where there there is a track record to consult.


so what great humanitarian things has he done?
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  6  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2011 02:48 pm
@hawkeye10,
Forcibly retiring him three games before he wanted to retire himself is hardly running him through with a pitchfork and will do wonders to create an impression that Penn State is acting forcefully to correct situation. It also eliminates what would have been a very embarrasing retirement ceremony at the last home game that would have attracted all sorts of negative attention.
ehBeth
 
  5  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2011 02:50 pm
@hawkeye10,
there's no "we the collective" that you're part of unless you have a mouse in your pocket as Set always puts it so elegantly

If you, and Paterno, don't understand that reports of child abuse need to be reported, than my beef is with you and Paterno, not the state.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2011 02:57 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

there's no "we the collective" that you're part of unless you have a mouse in your pocket as Set always puts it so elegantly

If you, and Paterno, don't understand that reports of child abuse need to be reported, than my beef is with you and Paterno, not the state.
He did report it, to his boss, as the law directed him to do in the situation he found himself in.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2011 02:58 pm
@engineer,
Quote:
It also eliminates what would have been a very embarrasing retirement ceremony at the last home game that would have attracted all sorts of negative attention
If the students chant " we love JoePa!" all during the game the board might have second thoughts about which course of action was best for the universities reputation....

EDIT: I am expecting that that bullet might be dodged by cancelling the rest of the season, as some have called for.
engineer
 
  3  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2011 03:02 pm
@hawkeye10,
I doubt it. ESPN might show a few signs of students protesting at the next game but they are going to talk more about the board firing Paterno. Every game or student protest from here on out will focus attention on the board taking "decisive action" to fire Paterno. Unfortunately for PS, they will also be talking about the charges but there's no way around that one.
 

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