Toronto Bans Sale of Puppy Mill (kittens and puppies) Pets

Amazing. I've used glucosamine for years with excellent results, but any time I drop it for a month, the problems come right back. I'm happy for you and your Newfie.

No, no guaranty. Just a family history, and possibly x-rays.

I used to volunteer at an animal shelter. It was horrible. One of the worst parts was that you couldn't get friendly with the dogs because it would just break your heart when you inevitably saw them destroyed. So, i understand the point of view of the woman from the shelter in North Carolina, even though i don't agree. Whoever it was here who said it, the point is that the irresponsible shits who got the dog and then couldn't deal with it are at fault. I've known people who had kittens or puppies "for a good home," and they meant it. They would check the people out before they gave their little ones away. The really tragic ones are the rescues. A lot of people think it would be noble to take in a rescue--but they are often a good deal of work and grief before they settle in and learn to be a real dog or cat. A lot of them end up at shelters, too.

Mine dug up most of the back yard and ate the living room furniture. Even now 6 years later she is quite neurotic with low self esteem in spite of all efforts . The litter was thrown in a dumpster, only she and one other made it.

Thanks roger, but I had figured out the basics. If the problem is being caused by a few semi-senile judges, that's one thing, but if the organizations have a financial incentive to tweak breeds, that's something all together different. I'll just have to read up on it, starting with Ceili's link, before offering any further comment.

I'm well aware that they exist hawk and while I'm sure that everyone who is infuriated by Puppy Mills doesn't necessarily share their extreme opinions, these bills need to be examined to ensure they are not advancing such an agenda.


Anytime I hear someone argue that the problem is too important to spend a lot of time figuring out the best answer, or the problem isn't people, it's (fill in the blank), or that if you don't agree with the solution you either don't understand or don't care enough about the problem, my antenna go up.

The folks who would like to see all private breeding outlawed are certainly free to to pursue a goal of rendering that desire into law. They are also free to demonize their opponents, twist the facts, and get the legislative skids as greasy as possible to slide their bill on through. Their opponents are free to try and stop them. I just have to wonder how much coverage these bills get and how hard one has to pay attention to catch wind of them, before its too late.

And of course the approach of solving problems by restricting freedom and substituting governmental madates for personal responsibility and choice is hardly limited to matters involving puppies and kittens.

We have the case of cell phone location technology having been mandated under the laws using the excuse of it needed in the case of 911 calls and are now being used without warrants to track in real time the movements of any citizens the government or the government agents are even mildly interest in.

We have a mandate bill in congress to keep records of all of our movements on the internet for years under the excuse of attacking child porn.

Similar to passing a bill that all the citizens snail addresses coming or going should be available to the government for the same reason.

Who here is buying into the idea that the main used of such a law or even a major use of such a law would be child porn investigations?

I hate the selling of laws under the cover of attacking a problem when the real purpose is hidden away because the authors of such laws know that otherwise they could not get them pass.

This might have already been said, as I've only caught a few people's posts. So my apologies if my negligence causes some repetitiveness.

The primary reason puppy mills are a problem, at least in America, is that people are lazy as all hell. It literally takes a phone call and possibly a site visit to know if a breeder is on the up and up or if they're just cranking out dogs or cats for snot-nosed little brats that can't wait 7-8 weeks to get a new best friend.

Toronto's ban on pet stores is fine with me. It shouldn't discourage honest-breeders at all, as most honest breeders care enough about the animals they're raising to not mass ship them to a consumer pet shop to sit in a cage until someone picks them up. If little Johnny snot-nose can't visit a reputable breeder with his parents, see the mother/father of the puppy/kitten he'll be taking home, see pictures of other animals that the breeder has raised and cared for until a good home was found for them . . then buying a rescue animal from the pet store is the next best thing in my book.

Set's point is well noted though, several animals that come from the shelters will be returned to the shelters by impatient, uncaring, 'me first' people who never should have owned an animal in the first place. My hope, probably misplaced given the greed of Capitalism, is that with the loss of business the puppy mills will start shutting down. Once that happens, and if all shelter animals are still spay/neutered, there might just be less of them as time goes on.

I own an English Bulldog. I visited the breeder's facilities and got to interact with all of the dogs that she breeds. I got to talk to her children that help care for the dogs, and see the fields for playing and air conditioned building that the animals live in. I also got pictures of my puppy from 1 week old to the time I picked her up at 8 weeks, three times a week.

My point is, I did my research. I found a respectable breeder that genuinely cares for both her dogs and the dogs she sells. I also paid good money for it, but I knew that the puppy I was paying for would have had all of the developmental advantages possible from birth. I knew this because I didn't drive my lazy ass to a pet store and pick out the first wretched animal that made eye contact with me.

The kind of breeder that I went to needs to have no fear of going out of business by this law. They thrive despite the puppy mills, because they do it right and the animals they raise are quality companions.

/ramble

Let us know what you discover.

Not addressed to Finn now, but there are really three classes of breeders out there: serious, legitimate breeders with an interest in the breed, puppy mills, and those "backyard breeders". The latter can be among the best; they can also embarass the worst of the puppy mills. Just because you buy from Mom, Dad, and the two darling children is no assurance about the quality of the breed.

Right, which is the point of visiting the site, checking things out for yourself (among those 'things' is breed papers if you're worried about the breed quality) etc.

I don't think most people are interested in "quality of the breed". Most pet owners I know are more interested in the quality of care the animals receive.

The benefit of Mom, Dad and two darling children is that you can visit the home, spend time with the parent dog/s, see how they're socializing the puppies, spend time with the puppies in the weeks before you bring them home ... that sort of thing. You can learn about the puppies' physical and mental status by getting details from their vet. That is very rarely possible with a puppy purchased at a pet store here. You might be able to determine, maybe, if it was bred in Quebec or the Carolinas.

Ever read Marley and Me? They did this - and the mistake they made was prior to commiting to purchase their puppy and putting money down - they did not meet the dad.

And if any breeder gives you a good deal on one of the puppies within a litter - I'd suggest spending the extra - there is a reason....

Definitely. If you're bargain bin hunting for a pet that could theoretically be a part of your life for 10+ years . . .

But speaking of visiting the breeder and stuff - when we were getting our new addition, we went and visited. If was a huge yard and a great big fenced in area where they kept the older dogs. Not only did we meet mama and pappa, but one of the sets of grandparents.

I figured we were all set when we heard and saw the results of some of their stories within the family (human family - of mom/dad and 2 girls). The mom was out walking one day with one of the daughters - they live off a busy street and noticed a squirrel that was squashed by a car on the side of the road. The mom noticed this squirrel was nursing - (who the heck checks that out on a dead squirrel) and searched for the squirrels nest - she found it and the brought home the babies squirrels and were raising them. My daughters got to hold them.

They have also saved some baby birds where they had to feed them every so many hours and stuff.

I figured they were way overboard on animal love and thought who else better than to get a pet from. Certainly their pets did not lack love.

The pup you like could just be on the small side, or with colors that don't meet the breed standard. This could a real bargain, as most serious breeders expect their puppys to be shown in comformity competition. If it's off price, you should definately be finding out why. If the reason doesn't at least sound plausible, don't take it home.

"Meet the dad". Well, often enough the dad comes from a different kennel. Doable, but more complicated, but yeah, "The mother was a nice doggy and the father came from a nice neighborhood" isn't the pedigree you are probably looking for.

Might depend on what you mean by "most." At some point in not being interested in the quality of the breed, picking up a mutt from the pound becomes a sensible choice. Don't take that to be a slur on mutts, either. I've met Sally Dog many times, and she's the second finest dog I've ever known.

We did the meet the parents with two of our Newfs, but most of what we want to know is in the AKC paperwork.

I find the use of the term "mutt" to be hilarious. All humans are mutts, and the more we learn about acient migrations from DNA and MtDNA analysis, the more "muttish" humans appear to be.

Nevertheless, "mutt" does convey a certain set of characteristics, even when applied to people.

We tried the alternative, the human equivalent to dog pure breeding , back in the days of NAZI Germany......it did not go over so well.....

You must have not read Marley and Me! They did end up meeting the dad, quite by accident and realized then that they could be in trouble.

Also, the pup they chose was far from the runt of the litter so it should have been obvious that was not the reason he was a bargain - and getting from a home breeder usually it isn't because the color isn't precisely right or some other "defect" it is because it is a "problem child."