Are women becoming afraid of commitment?

My first response is that it has to do with choices. I think if there is a change, it is because women don't feel the same pressure that they used to to define themselves as wives, mothers, etc.

I've been complaining about this for about 30 years. I seem to always find the men who are interested in commitment, when I'm not.

I had a bit of a debate with the U.S. customs woman one of the last times I went to visit Setanta.

Her: Citizenship?
Me: Canajun
Her: Purpose of your trip?
Me: Going to visit my boyfriend
Her: Is he a canajun?
Me: No. He's an american.
Her: How long have you known him?
Me: Just over three years.
Her: So why don't you marry him and move to the U.S.?
Me:
Her: Oh. You've got commitment issues. Have a good trip.

soz- You took the words right out of my mouth.

.OZ.- I am a LOT older than you. In the old days, women had limited choices in what they could aspire to be. Career choices were restricted to "women's" fields, such as nursing and teaching, which years ago, were very low paying. For many women, the way to "the good life" was to marry a man who had a "future". I know of many women who settled on marrying some guy who was her intellectual inferior, because she did not want to end up an "old maid" (bet you have never heard that expression! :wink: ).

Nowadays, women have far greater choices in life, including staying single as a conscious choice. She can be much more choosy in deciding with whom, and how, she will spend her life.

I consider myself a feminist, and I am aware of the changes in gender equality. I know the expression "old maid" . The thing that I question is if there is a pattern emerging, or an eventual paradigm switch in "gender roles" that I may be witnessing the infancy of. I am also curious of the implications of such a switch if I as a male am having "typical" experiences for my age/generation. I also find it interesting that young women would feel the weight of past gender un-equality, while growing up in contemporary era where there is less of it (I find it interesting not that I don't understand why it is). What does puzzle me though is why the shift and if there is one. Meaning, does my experience signify a shift, and if it does, why are men now seeking commitment (while being able to chose careers) and women are not (in the case with young women, because they have grown up with a more contemporary view of gender)? One would think that it would become an "even playing field" as far as those looking and not looking for commitment.

You are witnessing something, .OZ., but I don't think you're witnessing the infancy stage.

When I was growing up (mostly in the 1960's), I had quite a few role models of women who had not married, who had careers, and who I (as a little girl) thought had fascinating lives.

Perhaps we're seeing a shaky adolescence of a societal shift.

This sort of thing seems to go back and forth over the generations/years/centuries.

OZ, I think a lot of societal shifts come about not in a nice even gradual way but in pendulum swings, first way one way, then way the other way, then the first way to a lesser extent, then the other way to a lesser extent, etc. There is some great injustice, then a powerful, occasionally hyperbolic movement to counteract the injustice, then a backlash against the movement, etc.



Past eras leach into current eras, in all sorts of ways. It's not some clean break. A pendulum-swing example -- commercials. Have you noticed how often today the men are buffoons, the women suave and in control? This was probably subversive and amusing at one point, but it's become its own orthodoxy. This background of casual denigration of men probably has some effect on how young women think. (Not just commercials, a general willingness to make fun of men before making fun of women.)

Another pendulum-swing example, that I have given here before. It was very recently (last year?) that a friend of mine who is a physicist was turned down for a job specifically because, "You're just going to have babies."

Physicists in general realize this, and are trying to do something about it. I know another guy who is looking for jobs, and no particular attempt is made to hide the fact that the vast majority of reputable institutions (though not all) are making a concerted effort to hire women. He is hearing a lot of things like, "Well, we're not sure if we can make a hire this year, unless we find a good woman candidate, of course, then it won't be a problem at all." We have a (female) friend who was very skeptical of this whole "easier to find a job if you're a woman" thing, and has been positively inundated with offers this year.

It is pretty much generally accepted that if a man is in competition with someone who is just as qualified, but is a woman, the woman will be hired. But it was not too long ago that the opposite was true, and in addiiton to the fact that there ARE qualified women out there, lots of them, the fact of them creates more. They get in policy-making positions, they get headlines, they even just show up at elementary school classes and inspire girls there. The pendulum needs to swing before the playing field is truly leveled.

Which is a bit of a tangent, sorry. My main thing is that even if this is a phenomenon, which I don't have enough data to know, it can't really be looked at without some historical perspective IMO.

Edit: That came off as more lectury than intended, I know you said that you did get it, just find it interesting. I agree.

Well, in Oz, women are marrying later (as a generalization) and marrying less.

My largest group of friends (I am fifty) - who are very political, have tended to marry not at all - (though some have succumbed to work-style pressures - eg some married when elected to parliament, to stop untoward gossip - and some when they ended up in the same work-place) - a few married for the usual reasons, a couple married to get into IVF (!). Some had married very young - one couple is still together - some seem to like marrying, and do it a lot!

Another group are gay - but a number of these had heterosexual marriages first!

Another large group, who are more conventional, married in their twenties - their marriages have taken the normal course - about half are still very happily together - about half divorced.

Younger Oz women seem either as starry-eyed as their 1950's grannies, have no plan to marry at all - or put it off and off.

I note that American women my age seem far more likely to be married than is the norm for most of my friends - but I do not think we are all that typical.

I was, from early childhood, determined not to marry at all ..... though I think this was familial (I was soooo not gertting into the thing my parents were in! Put me right off, it did...) rather than sociological.

Boy do I want more options for women, means men get more with less of the "I own you now".

Flaw in logic! Lots of men actually want to own and be owned....well, some just want to own...

Still, as you say, more options for your sort!

I was going to say that it would be a downside for the dudes who like to own but that I didn't care about those guys. I ended up thinking that was not necessary and that my silly distraction was bad enough.

But since you call it a "flaw in logic" I feel compelled to point out that unless I am one of those guys there's no logical flaw. In fact you err in assuming that I care about their situation at all.

I'm not lookin' out for them, frankly I wish they'd all turn gay right quick.

LOL! You did start with the personal, but then you went to general, with the " means men get more with less of the "I own you now" " - 'twas an unwarranted assumptioon about all men, then.

Nope, it means what it means. Whether they like it or not is not something I care about. I like it.

It was a very warranted assumption about what they will get with no assumption made about whether they'll like it. I like it, and for all I care they should all be gay so that I can have more of it.

Sheesh, still trying to pin a logical flaw on me bunny?

Hint: That I talk to women indicates a logical flaw. I'd be better off wishing I were gay myself. ;-)

Gautam would probably be happy to help with the turning str8 guys gay thing...

"Sheesh, still trying to pin a logical flaw on me bunny?"

LOL! I'd like to pin SOMETHING on you - a tail perhaps?

LOL! One of my gay friends says there are two types of man - gay ones, and those who haven't discovered it yet...

He he, I had thought that Gautam would love my plan.

I'd have all the wimmins to myself.....

Thing is, that would probably drive me to become gay too......

Whatever makes you happy, dear.....

We'd just have to forcibly milk you from time to time....

not sure I understand the question, most all women I know are ready to be committed.