0
   

9/11 conspiracy or terrorists?

 
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2011 08:31 am
@parados,
You misled time after time wrt the steel, Parados, making a big pretense that you were up on the facts. When asked, you disappeared, desperately searching for info that you should have had at the ready.

Now you come back with some silly link. Just tell us, Parados.

How much steel was saved for the investigation?
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2011 10:24 am
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=6133


Madison, WI (PRWEB) June 21, 2007 - A study of the black box data provided by the government to Pilots for 9/11 Truth has confirmed the previous findings of Scholars for 9/11 Truth that no Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon on 9/11. "We have had four lines of proof that no Boeing 757 hit the building," said James Fetzer, founder of Scholars for 9/11 Truth. "This new study by Pilots drives another nail into a coffin of lies told the American people by The 9/11 Commission":

The new society, an international organization of pilots and aviation professionals, petitioned the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) under the Freedom of Information Act and obtained its 2002 report on American Airlines Flight 77, a Boeing 757 that, according to the official account, hit the ground floor of the Pentagon after it skimmed over the lawn at 500 mph plus, taking out a series of lamp posts in the process. The pilots not only obtained the flight data but created a computer animation to demonstrate what it told them.

According to the report issued by Pilots for 9/11 Truth (http://pilotsfor911truth.org/), there are major differences between the official account and the flight data:

a. The NTSB Flight Path Animation approach path and altitude does not support official events.

b. All Altitude data shows the aircraft at least 300 feet too high to have struck the light poles.

c. The rate of descent data is in direct conflict with the aircraft being able to impact the light poles and be captured in the Dept of Defense "5 Frames" video of an object traveling nearly parallel with the Pentagon lawn.

d. The record of data stops at least one second prior to official impact time.

e. If data trends are continued, the aircraft altitude would have been at least 100 feet too high to have hit the Pentagon.

As Robert Balsamo, co-founder of Pilots for 9/11 Truth, observes, "The information in the NSTB documents does not support, and in some instances factually contradicts, the official government position that American Airlines Flight 77 struck the Pentagon on the morning of September 11, 2001." The study was signed by fifteen professional pilots with extensive military and commercial carrier experience. They have made their animation, "Pandora's Box: Chapter 2," available to the public at http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=Pandora's+Black+Box%3A+Chapter+2 .

According to James H. Fetzer, founder of Scholars for 9/11 Truth (http://911scholars.org), this result fits into the broader picture of what happened at the Pentagon that day. "We have developed four lines of argument that prove--conclusively, in my judgment--that no Boeing 757 hit the building. The most important evidence to the contrary has been the numerous eyewitness reports of a large commercial carrier coming toward the building. If the NTSB data is correct, then the Pilot's study shows that a large aircraft headed toward the building but did not impact with it. It swerved off and flew above the Pentagon."

Fetzer, who retired last June after 35 years of teaching courses in logic, critical thinking, and scientific reasoning, expressed pleasure over the Pilot's results, which, he said, has neatly resolved the most pressing issue that remained about the Pentagon. He added, "We have previously developed several lines of argument, each of which proves that no Boeing 757 hit the building," including these four:

(1) The hit point at the Pentagon was too small to accommodate a 100-ton airliner with a 125-foot wingspan and a tail that stands 44 feet above the ground; the kind and quantity of debris was wrong for a Boeing 757: there were no wings, no fuselage, no seats, no bodies, no luggage, no tail! Not even the engines were recovered, and they are practically indestructible.

(2) Of an estimate 84 videotapes of the crash, the three that have been released by the Pentagon do not show a Boeing 757 hitting the building, as even Bill O'Reilly admitted when one was shown on "The Factor". At 155 feet, the plane was more than twice as long as the 77-foot Pentagon is high and should have been visible. There are indications of a much smaller plane, but not a Boeing 757.

(3) Indeed, the aerodynamics of flight would have made the official trajectory--flying more than 500 mph barely above ground level--physically impossible, because of the accumulation of a massive pocket of compressed gas (air) beneath the fuselage; and if it had come it at an angle instead, it would have created a massive crater; but there is no crater and the official trajectory is impossible.

(4) Flying low enough to impact with the ground floor would have meant that the enormous engines were plowing the ground and creating massive furrows; but there are no massive furrows. The smooth, unblemished surface of the Pentagon lawn thus stands as a "smoking gun" proving the official trajectory cannot be sustained.

Members of Scholars have contributed to a new book that analyses the government's official account, according to which 19 Islamic fundamentalists hijacked four commercial airliners, outfoxed the most sophisticated air-defense system in the world, and committed these atrocities under the control of a man in a cave in Afghanistan. Entitled, THE 9/11 CONSPIRACY (2007), it includes photographs of the hit point before and after the upper floors collapsed, the crucial frame from the released videos, and views of the clear, smooth, and unblemished lawn.

"Don't be taken in by photos showing damage to the second floor or those taken after the upper floors collapsed, which happened 20-30 minutes later," Fetzer said. "In fact, debris begins to show up on the completely clean lawn in short order, which might have been dropped from a C-130 that was circling above the Pentagon or placed there by men in suits who were photographed carrying debris with them." The most striking is a piece from the fuselage of a commercial airliner, which is frequently adduced as evidence.

James Hanson, a newspaper reporter who earned his law degree from the University of Michigan College of Law, has traced that debris to an American Airlines 757 that crashed in a rain forest above Cali, Columbia in 1995. "It was the kind of slow-speed crash that would have torn off paneling in this fashion, with no fires, leaving them largely intact." Fetzer has been so impressed with his research he has invited Hanson to submit his study to Scholars for consideration for publication on its web site, 911scholars.org.

"The Pentagon has become a kind of litmus test for rationality in the study of 9/11," Fetzer said. "Those who persist in maintaining that a Boeing 757 hit the building are either unfamiliar with the evidence or cognitively impaired. Unless," he added, "they want to mislead the American people. The evidence is beyond clear and and compelling. It places this issue 'beyond a reasonable doubt'. No Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon."
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Sep, 2011 03:58 pm
@JTT,
So, Parados, how much steel was saved for the investigation?
parados
 
  2  
Reply Mon 12 Sep, 2011 06:49 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
. Unless," he added, "they want to mislead the American people. The evidence is beyond clear and and compelling. It places this issue 'beyond a reasonable doubt'. No Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon."

I'm curious what happened to the plane and passengers on that plane since it didn't hit the Pentagon.
Was it miraculously transported out of our universe?
It is more likely that the instruments were off slightly than it is that the plane disappeared without a trace.

By the way, that stupid article ignores the fact that parts of the plane were found in and around the Pentagon.
http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/ats/pentagon757/planeparts-1.jpg
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Sep, 2011 06:50 pm
@JTT,
Now you are just playing games by changing "the investigation" to a different investigation.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Sep, 2011 06:50 pm
@parados,
So, Parados, how much steel was saved for the investigation?
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Sep, 2011 06:59 pm
@parados,
You sure are being cagey, Parados.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Sep, 2011 07:01 pm
@JTT,
I posted the link to the steel and it's being examined.

You simply change your tune and pretend that I don't have any evidence.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Sep, 2011 07:06 pm
@parados,
If investigators examined the steel and decided which pieces to save, that doesn't mean that none of the steel was examined.

Now.. you want to change it from "none of the steel was investigated" to none of it was saved for "the investigation".

What do you think the people that investigated which pieces to save were doing?
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Sep, 2011 07:27 pm
@parados,
So, Parados, how much steel was saved for the investigation?
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Sep, 2011 07:35 pm
@JTT,
There you go again..

You start out by claiming none of the steel was looked at, then change it to none of it was saved when it becomes obvious that it was looked at.

All the steel was there for the investigation of the steel. Those investigators didn't save it all. End of story. Nothing else to say unless you are trying to play games...

Oh.. you are playing games.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Sep, 2011 07:41 pm
@parados,
Quote:
You start out by claiming none of the steel was looked at, then change it to none of it was saved when it becomes obvious that it was looked at.


You are a bald faced liar but that's not terribly important now.

So, Parados, how much steel was saved for the investigation?
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 07:09 am
@JTT,
So.. JTT..
Why did I post a picture of a plane engine at the Pentagon when you posted that no engines were found there?
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 09:43 am
@parados,
For the umpteenth time, Parados, how much steel was saved for the investigation?
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 11:55 am
@JTT,
Some excellent shots, great overview to be found here:

Pentagon Strike

http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/flash.htm
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Sep, 2011 04:22 pm
@parados,
For the umpteenth and one time, Parados, how much steel was saved for the investigation?
0 Replies
 
iwonderwhatif
 
  0  
Reply Sun 25 Sep, 2011 03:18 pm
@parados,
That's easy. Since the US planned all events in advance.....

CIA agents fill plane.
Plane takes off (both passengers and alleged terrorists are CIA working together...like a hollywood film)
The transponder shuts off, no tracking plane lands... CIA goes home has beer.
Air to surface missile hits pentagon.
All tracking of these planes micromanaged by the military, and all other agencies involved like the FAA (and the multitudes not in the know), in one form or another, submit to the American governments preeminence.
The show goes on...every year the victims of the families you see are related in some manner to supporters of this covert action. The are NOT real victims (Pentagon & Flight 93) because there were no passengers. Flight 93 and Pentagon 911 anniversary ceremonies are all faked. Evey year. This is all black budget financed deception.

The W.T.C. victims are real. However there would be no need for terrorists or victims in those plane crashed into WTC 1 & 2.
If a building was already scheduled in advance to be destroyed entirely, what would they need terrorists for?
There were no Al-qaeda terrorists on 911. This is a myth.
Osama bin Laden is a myth. He was CIA, his family in Saudi Arabia had business connections with the U.S. military, his family had private associations with Bush. The flushing of him at sea is beyond unbelievable.

There is some speculation of how the towers were brought down, but it has been proven (admitted by NIST) that the collapse happened at free fall speeds. Violations of the Laws of physics can not be denied.

Major theories are that 911 was an advance controlled demolition job and that weapons grade nanothermite was used. Samples found in the W.T.C. dust found by Professor Steven Jones PhD support this theory. However without finding these samples myself and testing them, all I have is Dr. Jones credibility.

Other parties have pointed out that Dr. Jones may be discredited for his suspected involvement in Cold Fusion new energy work. New energies may have been showcased on 911 to impress foreign powers such as China and threaten them with this display of American power demonstrated on their own citizens. Evidence at the 911 site show similarities to the Hutchinson Effect, which has led theorists to consider directed energy weapons may have been used.

Ex- Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has spoken about new energy weapons at the White House Press Conference on C-span (you tube) claiming that directed energy weapons are in a developmental stage, and not being used in Iraq at this time. There are many reports and videos of attacks in Iraq where victims claimed a weapon that used no traditional munitions was employed and employed demonstrative high energy outputs. There is no question that directed energy weapons are being developed.

China has been accused of jamming U.S. satellites with directed energy technology, and Russia has a weather technology which created an aurora. Much of this technology stems from the brilliant scientist Nikola Tesla who was developing a free energy source to free the planet. Although brilliant men such as Einstein and Edison, winners of the Nobel Peace prize had nothing but praise for Tesla, Tesla's reputation in the U.S. is less well known. In part due to the powerful business interests which more often than not, destroy the benevolent pursuits of the noble inventor.

Free energy for the world..currently suppressed by feuding governments locked in a power struggle....racing toward geopolitical primacy, and global control. When one reigns supreme, do you think then the people will be freed from their financial constraints? Or, will they remained enslaved operators of the low-level mechanical infrastructure, working for less and paying into a pyramid scheme designed to control their very existence, for the purpose and privilege of unknowable parties.

However the World Trade Center was destroyed, it was without any doubt what so ever that the United States government was completely aware of the attacks and in complete and amazing control over them.

911 was a significant introductory geopolitical maneuver which kicked off a new advance in the struggle for American Primacy and its Geo-strategic Imperatives.

I highly recommend an introductory read of Zbigniew Brzezinski's book "The Grand Chessboard." A real insight into the mind of America's war hawks.









iwonderwhatif
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Sep, 2011 03:22 pm
How was 911 pulled off by the U.S. government:

CIA agents fill plane.
Plane takes off (both passengers and alleged terrorists are CIA working together...like a hollywood film)
The transponder shuts off, no tracking plane lands... CIA goes home has beer.
Air to surface missile hits pentagon.
All tracking of these planes micromanaged by the military, and all other agencies involved like the FAA (and the multitudes not in the know), in one form or another, submit to the American governments preeminence.
The show goes on...every year the victims of the families you see are related in some manner to supporters of this covert action. The are NOT real victims (Pentagon & Flight 93) because there were no passengers. Flight 93 and Pentagon 911 anniversary ceremonies are all faked. Evey year. This is all black budget financed deception.

The W.T.C. victims are real. However there would be no need for terrorists or victims in those plane crashed into WTC 1 & 2.
If a building was already scheduled in advance to be destroyed entirely, what would they need terrorists for?
There were no Al-qaeda terrorists on 911. This is a myth.
Osama bin Laden is a myth. He was CIA, his family in Saudi Arabia had business connections with the U.S. military, his family had private associations with Bush. The flushing of him at sea is beyond unbelievable.

There is some speculation of how the towers were brought down, but it has been proven (admitted by NIST) that the collapse happened at free fall speeds. Violations of the Laws of physics can not be denied.

Major theories are that 911 was an advance controlled demolition job and that weapons grade nanothermite was used. Samples found in the W.T.C. dust found by Professor Steven Jones PhD support this theory. However without finding these samples myself and testing them, all I have is Dr. Jones credibility.

Other parties have pointed out that Dr. Jones may be discredited for his suspected involvement in Cold Fusion new energy work. New energies may have been showcased on 911 to impress foreign powers such as China and threaten them with this display of American power demonstrated on their own citizens. Evidence at the 911 site show similarities to the Hutchinson Effect, which has led theorists to consider directed energy weapons may have been used.

Ex- Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has spoken about new energy weapons at the White House Press Conference on C-span (you tube) claiming that directed energy weapons are in a developmental stage, and not being used in Iraq at this time. There are many reports and videos of attacks in Iraq where victims claimed a weapon that used no traditional munitions was employed and employed demonstrative high energy outputs. There is no question that directed energy weapons are being developed.

China has been accused of jamming U.S. satellites with directed energy technology, and Russia has a weather technology which created an aurora. Much of this technology stems from the brilliant scientist Nikola Tesla who was developing a free energy source to free the planet. Although brilliant men such as Einstein and Edison, winners of the Nobel Peace prize had nothing but praise for Tesla, Tesla's reputation in the U.S. is less well known. In part due to the powerful business interests which more often than not, destroy the benevolent pursuits of the noble inventor.

Free energy for the world..currently suppressed by feuding governments locked in a power struggle....racing toward geopolitical primacy, and global control. When one reigns supreme, do you think then the people will be freed from their financial constraints? Or, will they remained enslaved operators of the low-level mechanical infrastructure, working for less and paying into a pyramid scheme designed to control their very existence, for the purpose and privilege of unknowable parties.

However the World Trade Center was destroyed, it was without any doubt what so ever that the United States government was completely aware of the attacks and in complete and amazing control over them.

911 was a significant introductory geopolitical maneuver which kicked off a new advance in the struggle for American Primacy and its Geo-strategic Imperatives.

I highly recommend an introductory read of Zbigniew Brzezinski's book "The Grand Chessboard." A real insight into the mind of America's war hawks.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Sep, 2011 08:05 pm
@iwonderwhatif,
Of course the CIA has the ability to violate the laws of physics. They are outside the law after all.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Oct, 2011 12:11 pm
@parados,
Quote:
WTC Steel Removal

The Expeditious Destruction of the Evidence at Ground Zero

Steel was the structural material of the buildings. As such it was the most important evidence to preserve in order to puzzle out how the structures held up to the impacts and fires, but then disintegrated into rubble. Since no steel-framed buildings had ever collapsed due to fires, the steel should have been subjected to detailed analysis. So what did the authorities do with this key evidence of the vast crime and unprecedented engineering failure? They recycled it!

Quote:
Some 185,101 tons of structural steel have been hauled away from Ground Zero. Most of the steel has been recycled as per the city's decision to swiftly send the wreckage to salvage yards in New Jersey. The city's hasty move has outraged many victims' families who believe the steel should have been examined more thoroughly. Last month, fire experts told Congress that about 80% of the steel was scrapped without being examined because investigators did not have the authority to preserve the wreckage. 1


...

The pace of the steel's removal was very rapid, even in the first weeks after the attack. By September 29, 130,000 tons of debris -- most of it apparently steel -- had been removed. 4

During the official investigation controlled by FEMA, one hundred fifty pieces of steel were saved for future study. 5 One hundred fifty pieces out of hundreds of thousands of pieces! Moreover it is not clear who made the decision to save these particular pieces. It is clear that the volunteer investigators were doing their work at the Fresh Kills dump, not at Ground Zero, so whatever steel they had access to was first picked over by the people running the cleanup operation.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/groundzero/cleanup.html

0 Replies
 
 

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