Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

@spendius,

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Wouldn't three have made your point just as good?

Not really because I knew that you would be thinking of a threesome and how appealing it could be, but I was talking about rape in an explanation about morality and I did not want you to be confused about the two.

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@reasoning logic,

The only threesomes I have experienced didn't involve any other blokes.

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

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So why would you "think" he is not real?

You are being silly because you already know that answer.

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And finally, How do you plan on spreading your views of morality, so that others can learn, if you do not embrace any type of belief system, and are a lack of belief??

The same way that they were spread in the past to all of the books around the world that you call bibles. through word of mouth.
One of the bad things about the bible is that it has the works of others that were absolute in there thinking but they did included some secular morality when people seen that it had value.

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@spendius,

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You know nothing, nothing, about the people who wrote the Bible.

Is there something about the people who wrote the bible that you would like to share?

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@reasoning logic,

If he has, it'll take a brain surgeon to dissect it. (: - )

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@reasoning logic,

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The same way that they were spread in the past to all of the books around the world that you call bibles. through word of mouth.
One of the bad things about the bible is that it has the works of others that were absolute in there thinking but they did included some secular morality when people seen that it had value.

So then religions are not pointless...And their views of morality have importance then, right?

Again, why would a God be fake? And no it is not a silly question to me, so please answer it...

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@reasoning logic,

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On my understandings that come from studying moral philosophy, "same place that "some" of those who wrote the bible got theirs.

What about a religion, or a belief system is not a good, or correct thing then?

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My views on morality are much better than what they use to be, it is like playing a video game the more you study it the better you understand it. Do I have a perfect understanding of morality no because our understandings will always increase.

But, what if your better understanding of morality, is not necessarily a better understanding at all? That is my point?

It is to you, but maybe not another...

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Are you being serious?

I do apologize for the graphic example but I do want to make this as clear as I can. If ten men gang raped your own mother would you still need to ask these questions about them?

Maybe you were meaning something along a different line of thought.
If you ever need to question something about being moral or not, what I would recommend you doing is breaking it down to a very simple level.
It has been said long ago to love your neighbor as yourself but I would like to take it a step farther and say love your neighbor as you would love your own mother.
If you are truly serious about understanding morality then try this simple exercise.

If there is ever anything you question to be moral or immoral, think of a world were just you and your mother live. "Is there anything that we do in society to one another that you would not do onto your own mother?

I am being serious...If ten men "think" it is moral to gang rape someone, if there is no ultimate judge, who decides that that is moral or not, unless it is some sort of passed down religious thing?

It is not moral to us, but it appears it is to them...

Just because you posted an outlandish instance, does not alter what I have said...

What if it was not so outlandish?

Who is the moral one?

If it is moral to me, to tell a white lie, to not hurt my mothers feelings, but you do, as you believe telling the truth always is the answer, who is being moral, and immoral??

How does atheism per port to express moral, and immoral??

Word of mouth may do some, but not much...As there will be many who never hear it...

If you scribe something, and embrace a belief system, for future generations, you have a shot...

1 Reply

@reasoning logic,

RL

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And finally, How do you plan on spreading your views of morality, so that others can learn, if you do not embrace any type of belief system, and are a lack of belief??

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The same way that they were spread in the past to all of the books around the world that you call bibles. through word of mouth.

IDK if I agree on that note Spades... Then you would be called a Bible Basher and frankly I can't stand them.. I don't agree with it, you know that.. What about, just your "beliefs" and this is what RL is stating.. Without belief how can someone, go ahead in life?

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@FOUND SOUL,

What's going ahead in life?

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@spendius,

Keeping to your goals, dreams and not living just in , the, present... No matter of age, why bother just living?

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@reasoning logic,

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On my understandings that come from studying moral philosophy,

And what are your understandings rl?

Are they in line with those of Plato or Aristotle? Socrates? The Stoics? The Epicurians? The Sophists? Or Aquinas? Or Spinoza? Bentham maybe? Hobbes, Hume, Kant or Mill? Samuel Clarke? Ralph Cudworth? John Balguy? Richard Price? Shaftesbury and Hutcheson? Sidgwick? Schopenhauer? Hegel? Nietzsche? Moore? Russell? Ayer? Charles Stevenson? Mr Hare? John Rawls? Nozick and Dworkin? Gewirth and Mackie? Bernard Williams? Philippa Foot?

You have got something on your plate. There's something for everyone in such a banquet of the vanities. And I left out the Marquis de Sade on account of how sensitive the average A2Ker is to his take on these matters.

It seems to me that "studying moral philosophy" is an activity to guarantee that nobody can ever get you into a corner. A sort of bower of sweetly fragrant cotton wool wherein the intellect can bask unruffled by the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune. A play pen. A hiding place. A bunker even.

What is the distilled essence rl? That your understandings come from studying moral philosophy is no help to us although I can see how impressed your immediate social contacts must be by your efforts in such a prestigious field of human intellectual endevour.

It looks like a job creation scheme to me for those who feel they must at all costs avoid doing any digging or washing up on account of how undignified such activities are in the general scheme of pecuniary emulation where waste is the epitome of good form.

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@spendius,

Not biological waste though. Pooh-poohing that is mandatory.

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@FOUND SOUL,

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Keeping to your goals, dreams and not living just in , the, present.

Didn't Hitler do that?

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@reasoning logic,

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Is there something about the people who wrote the bible that you would like to share?

It might be worthwhile to say that the Authorised Version, aka the King James Version, was published in 1611 after King James ordered 47 scholars of the Church of England to take 0n the task in 1604 shortly after he became King. These scholars were no doubt advised and assisted by many others. Separate committees were formed with responsibility for various sections.

The New Testament was translated from the Greek and the Old Testament from Hebrew. There were in existence at the time numerous other translations, as there has been since, which points to the obvious fact that these scholars are the ones who wrote the KJV. Sometimes a different translation of one Greek or Hebrew word altered the meaning of a passage. And double negatives were also ambiguous.

The key point though, and one I imagine you will have some difficulty with, is that the authors of the KJV were Elizabethans.

A scholarly reading of Hamlet suggests that the educated Elizabethan scholar was aware that things are very often what they say they are in relation to the foundation of literary works but that it was permissible, expected even, that a fantasy of symbolism was constructed upon the factuality of the foundation which might be so elaborate that it obscures it to all but close readers.

And though Queen Elizabeth the 1st had died a year before these men were employed with the operation, all of them were"Elizabethans" and such an approach would be second nature to them.

Such a factual foundation being that there was a "before and after" makeover with the mission of Jesus which was seen as the only alternative to man being his own worst enemy. A saving mission.

So if you want to know something about the men who wrote the Bible you need to know about the educated and uneducated Elizabethan mind both of which Shakespeare wrote for. Some readings of Star Trek proceed in the same way. So do readings of fairy tales, fables and myths.

The Narcissus myth, for example, is a warning about self-love and not about a chap who drowned after falling in the river attempting to kiss his reflection in the surface of the water.

Shakespeare will clue you in to the Elizabethan mind. Then you will know something at least about the men who wrote the KJV of the Bible. I cannot comment on any others because I have never read any. Nor ever felt the need to. Beware of cargo cults.

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@spendius,

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A scholarly reading of Hamlet suggests that the educated Elizabethan scholar was aware that things are very often what they say they are in relation to the foundation of literary works but that it was permissible, expected even, that a fantasy of symbolism was constructed upon the factuality of the foundation which might be so elaborate that it obscures it to all but close readers.

It is worth noting that a good deal of Elizabethan decorative schemes were so elaborate that they also obscured the nature of the foundational image. Which is often the case today.

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@spendius,

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Without belief how can someone, go ahead in life?

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Didn't Hitler do that?

He lived, in the past, present and had no future. Unfortunately, evil people have goals and dreams too... Can't help that bit. But, his evil stemmed in my opinion, from the past.................

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@FOUND SOUL,

Hitler wasn't evil. He just believed that good was something other than we think it is.

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@FOUND SOUL,

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IDK if I agree on that note Spades... Then you would be called a Bible Basher and frankly I can't stand them.. I don't agree with it, you know that.. What about, just your "beliefs" and this is what RL is stating.. Without belief how can someone, go ahead in life?

Then the better question, for RL, would be, How can one spread word of mouth beliefs, spiritually, and morally, if they do not have one?? And are a rejection of a belief??

And if they say they have beliefs about both, but do not have a belief about Gods....

Why base their word of mouth beliefs, Spiritually, and morally, About themselves? Over what billions have done, over thousands of years, in the Bible? And if they do it from themselves, how Do they believe the Bible, or Gods are wrong, or fake?

How is what they are doing, and will do, different than someone else listening to the Bible, to do it?

It is the same but different...Instead of the Bible, they speak and listen to themselves...But it is based upon the same principals as the Bible, like Logic said, word of mouth....

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@Cyracuz,

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Hitler wasn't evil. He just believed that good was something other than we think it is.

And that is my point to RL...Who will decide who is evil and is not...IF one does not believe a God can and will do this???

Good and evil, is all in the other persons eyes...And in the eye of the beholder looking at it, and deciding if it is fact good or evil...But that does not mean they are right or wrong about it....

So who, ultimately is??

If God exists...He will decide...

If atheists are right, and a God is not...

Who will then?

And how will it ever change?

Someone will have to be in control to set the rules...

No?

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Well--bless my soul--I write a very efficient post about those who wrote the King James Bible and what was only really an aside, obvious anyway, about Hitler, and that is all that inspired responses neither of which are particularly interesting or informative to people who feel they have something to say about doubting or otherwise Christianity.

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Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

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