2q: is "13 year itch" possible? / husband feels trapped

Sooo, let me see if I am understanding this right.

Your husband goes out (apparently regularly. Is this weekly? Nightly? Monthly?) and it's to bars with friends. He doesn't stay out super-late. He comes home to you (and your daughter) and you're upset with him. Gee, I wonder why.

Could it be you're just PO'd that he's leaving you to care for your daughter while he's off having fun? Do you ever do anything of the sort like that, or is he the only one who gets to play? Do you ever have fun together without your daughter? It doesn't have to be where he plays pool - do you have places you go together that you both enjoy?

If it's Mondays and Wednesdays he plays pool, and Tuesdays and Thursdays you go bowling, I don't think you have much to complain about. But if it's Mondays and Tuesdays etc. that he plays pool, and you sit at home and watch TV or do the dishes or regrout the bathroom (or whatever it is you do), and deal with your daughter, then I think you've got a right to have a problem with that.

If you're the workhorse while he's out gallivanting around, he's got no right to be upset if you resent the imbalance of power. But if everyone is doing the work, and everyone is getting a break when they want and when they need it, then your complaints may be more focused on not being together, rather than him specifically being out playing pool.

So, which one is it, or is it something else that I haven't thought of?

You both seem to have legitimate issues. Just to get a sense of things - how often does he stay out "late"? If he goes out with the guys until 12:30 one night a week then that should be okay. If he goes out with the guys most nights - not okay. Also, do you spend time out having fun together or with others, or is most of your time together doing chores or hanging around the house?

You're both in a trap that I also experience. For example:

I overhear The Boy on the phone talking to friends about plans for Friday night, even though we already have plans. I wait for him to mention it, getting madder and madder as "well, he's going to break plans and he won't tell me until the last minute and he's forgot all about our plans and I'm going to tell him right where to stick it." By playing out the worst-case scenario in my head, I'm already livid by the time Friday comes. He may not break plans, he may suggest combining plans, he may break plans. All of this doesn't matter because I'm prepped for a fight, and I've been stewing about it for days. I'm not reacting to the reality of the situation. I'm reacting to feelings and actions that he hasn't made or had yet - but I've been in sparring practice for days and I'll be damned if he'll get away with the scenario I've been preparing for.

It seems that he is waiting for a bad reaction, whether he'll get one or not - and this makes him agitated by you whether you are mad or not. It's the perception of what is going on, not the reality.

The same goes for you. You believe that he stays out because he wants to be away from you. He stays out because he wants to be away from your resentment that you feel because you percieve he stays out because he wants to be away from you.

hhhmmmm.....does that make sense?

I'm obviously not in the relationship so I can't truly give solid advice. As suggestions - either try counseling (together or alone) or keep talking through it (you have a good start). Maybe just agree to act and do what you truly WANT to do and promise to act and say things only as they apply to what IS occurring - not what you THINK is occuring. Meaning - he stays out when he wants because he wants to, not because you'll get mad. You'll only get mad when his actions are truly unreasonable and not because you feel he's avoiding you.

It would be interesting to see how many arguments you have. It could be a lot less. It could be a lot more.

I hope that this has contributed in some way. Best of luck.

Now, see, great minds think alike. I was busy typing away and there jespah goes asking the same things I want to know. That girl's got the best psychotic ability on the board.

Psychotic?

I'll have to see where I've mislaid my tinfoil hat. :wink:

Well, I don't think I ever saw your earlier thread you mentioned but..

Can I ask a question? Several times in your post you mention that you "let him" do things. You let him? Are you his wife and partner or is keeper and mother?

I'm a firm believer is the "his time", "her time" and "their time" concept (or "my time", "your time" and "our time" if you prefer).

You mention that he goes out so I guess that is "his time". What about your time? Do you do anything on your own? If not, why not? Is that his choice or your own?

I guess my point is that he isn't your property. He's an adult and can make decisions for himself. If those decisions are "bad" decisions (i.e. coming home drunk, fooling around, totally ignoring you, etc..) then you have some valid complaints. But if you are just expecting him to spend every hour of the day with you then IMO, you have some unrealistic expectations.

From what you've mentioned so far he goes out once a week or so and is home at a not entirely unreasonable hour (later than I'd stay out on a work night but..). Do you have some other reason to believe his nights out are more than having a few beers and shooting pool?

If not, and if you have the freedom do spend some of your time as you wish you are pestering him about going out once a week then I can understand why he'd feel a little trapped.

Hi Rapunzelle!

How have you responded to his concern that there will be even more issues once your daughter has left? This seems like a pretty important core of what is going on, and good for him for saying it outright rather than letting the surface stuff distract. You guys have never ever been together as a couple without a kid in the middle. I can see that he has anxieties about how your relationship will change when that is no longer such a factor. Especially if his general concern is towards possessiveness/ overinvolvement, since the kid does a lot to mitigate that. (I.e., if you don't have much of a life of your own, and you now focus first on your daughter, that gives him room. If your daughter is no longer in the picture...?)

So I think it might be productive to pursue that further, find out what his fears are, allay them where you can, come up with some sort of a plan for how things will be when your daughter leaves since that will be entirely new territory for you guys.

Beyond that, I think you may have been a little freaked by the whole experience you had of being attracted to someone -- if you did, he can too. Try your best not to project, and just work with the facts. Listen to what he has to say.

Good luck!

I'll try to answer most questions..
My husband goes out usually maybe once a week, sometimes twice. He usually goes to the movies with his buddies, or they rent a movie and watch it at that friend's house. For a while they were watching it at our house, but now the buddy has a plasma so of course.. Anyway, just once in a while his friend will ask him if he wants to go for a drink. And no it does not happen very often. And no he does not come home drunk, he does not fool around, he comes home at a reasonable hour, and yes he does encourage me to go out & do stuff too. He feels we should have some time on our own. We do go out on weekends, usually at friends' places. Weeknights I prefer to stay home, it's my choice. I'm a homebody. I guess I'm stuck on this feeling that if he wants to go out w. friends, that means he doesn't want to be with me. He keeps saying that has nothing to do with it, he just likes to socialize, he's very much extrovert, and I'm more introvert. He says he would like to feel like I trust him and not feel like he is a bad little boy that will get scolded when he returns home later than anticipated etc. He's very helpful around the house, and my 14 y old is not a baby anymore, she doesn't require the attention a young kid does so that's not an issue. I need help changing my perceptions if that's what I need to do. Thanks..

Rapunzelle, is there anything that sounds good to you for going out on your own once or twice a week? Go to a really nice restaurant, bring a book? Go shopping? See a movie? Do you have any friends that you like to get together with?

I think it sounds like he's being pretty reasonable and the key is to change your own perception, as you say... I think doing something fun yourself will help remove the martyr aspect. (Plus, it'll be fun!)

Thanks everyone and Sozobe, to be honest with you, stuff I like to do is read, paint, etc. I just started painting again, maybe I can focus more on that, and on doing my own thing without depending on my hubby for "entertainment". I agree with you that he's reasonable, Maybe deep down it makes me feel important that he feels guilty about going out. And realizing this also makes me realize that's not right. I really do need to stop acting like a martyr or victim. You are entirely right. But you know sometimes you need to hear it from someone neutral? That's why I think you guys are very helpful. Fishin', you are right when you say I'm not his mother. I am also realizing that we don't "own" each other. But I'm having a hard time with that, but at least I'm aware of it which I believe is a step in the right direction. I'm a believer that people can change, I already made a lot of progress in this area, but understand there is room for improvement.

Rapunzelle--

You see yourself as a homebody. Your husband sees you as dependent on him for all social life.

Being responsible for "all" of someone else's "anything" can be scary.

I get the feeling that the evenings during the week when your husband is home are pleasanter that the evenings when he's not. You aren't happy unless he's home with you.

This is giving him some heavy responsibility and its no wonder he feels a little burdened.

Find a hobby. Scrapbooking, doing logic puzzles, building skyscrapers with toothpicks....something that you need space and private time to accomplish. On his social evenings, tell your daughter to put on her coat. You're going to have "Ladies' Night Out at the neighborhood movie house or ice cream parlor or the local library.

Find a hobby--another hobby--that your husband might eventually share that would get the two of you out and about together.

For 2004 your role model should be the mythical Greta Garbo. Practice the sultry mantra, "I vant to be alone."

Don't think "He's going out because he doesn't want to be with me and this means that he doesn't love me and this means I'm not a worthwhile person." He just wants to watch a movie with a friend--its about him, not about you.

Make a list of projects--personal or for the house or for your daughter that you need private time to accomplish--then do them. Remember, in her day, Greta Garbo was a woman of mystery. Men wanted to know her innermost soul. She's your role model--go for it.

Painting sounds perfect!

Noddy,

What words of wisdom.. You made me laugh, but just because what you said is so head on. Yes I can see how being responsible for "all" of someone else's "anything" can be scary. That's exactly what he told me (in other words). And it's true that I find it more pleasurable when he's around. But it's nice to have someone validate that "He just wants to watch a movie with a friend--its about him, not about me". I needed to hear that, even though I suspected it, I needed to hear it from a third party. And to be honest, sometimes I do "vant to be alone". But on the nights I don't Vant to, that's when it hurts. And that's when he senses it and feels guilty but still wants to go out but does it feeling guilty - well - you get the picture. I have to learn to accept that he does not need my permission, especially when he is reasonable as he is now. Sozobe you're head on too regarding his concerns for when our daughter leaves the nest. He asked me the other day how I see our lives when she's gone, and I never really thought about it. Maybe I should start thinking about it, and develop more personal interest, and get used to doing my own stuff before we get there. Such smart people you are!!

Well, they say the first step to fixing a problem is recognizing that ya have one. Just from what you've written in this thread it seems like you have a pretty reasonable head on your shoulders and you are trying to attack the issue constructively. That alone puts you way ahead of millions of other people.

Life is a journey of discovery. I wish you luck on yours.

Sounds like there's lots of stuff you can do, either on your own, or with your daughter. I remember this time of life with my mother as being filled with conflict. So it would be good to have some girls' time with your daughter - totally fun, nothing nutritious or educational or fraught with any other obligations. She may also enjoy painting, or perhaps a class together (for fun!) could be good.

Painting is a great thing - it's using your inner resources. So is reading. So is taking a walk (yeah, I know it's cold out, but it isn't cold 365 days/year). So is .... You get the idea.

PS Noddy, my husband admires you, and referred to you as Noddy Too Hottie the other day. :-D

Thanks guys. Thanks for the compliments Noddie I appreciate it. I'm thankful that my husband has brought it up in a civil way, instead of waiting until it is too late. I think we'll be ok. His grandfather passed away last night, so that doesn't help our already touchy situation, but we'll get through it I'm sure.

The next time he comes home from his night out, greet him at the door wearing a smile...and nothing else.

Rapunzelle--

That's life--one damn thing after another. You are obviously willing to change yourself and you'll survive--and so will your marriage.

Jespah--

Tell that charming man of yours that he has reduced me to quivering hysteria.

You have already gotten all the great advice you need, but just wanted to wish you well.