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How can we be sure?

 
 
AugustineBrother
 
  0  
Reply Mon 8 Aug, 2016 01:39 pm
@rosborne979,
Stupidly ignorant of the true nature of both science and religion.
Science deals with proof based on premises that are accepted assumptions.

Religion is very varied and can't be spoken of monolithically except by morons.
But if we go by Jesus and Moses, religion DEMANDS proof or it isn't belief, it is mere fideism, condemned by both Judaism and Christianity.

Here is the classic statement of this:
Fides et Ratio (14 September 1998) | John Paul II

“Whether we admit it or not, there comes for everyone the moment when personal existence must be anchored to a truth recognized as final, a truth which confers a certitude no longer open to doubt.”
― Pope John Paul II, Fides et Ratio: On the Relationship Between Faith and Reason

“A philosophy which no longer asks the question of meaning of life would be in grave danger of reducing reason to merely accessory functions, with not real passion for the search for truth.”
― Pope John Paul II, Fides et Ratio: On the Relationship Between Faith and Reason
think rethink
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Apr, 2017 10:23 am
@Raishu-tensho,
The answer depends on your definition of sound.
Sound as a living experience (with the word only carrying the experience as a communication, but not participating),
Is not occurring.

Sound as a verbal representation of non existent but still potentially technically relevant data,

Does occur.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Apr, 2017 10:42 am
@AugustineBrother,
The "meaning of life" depends upon ones genes and environment. An individual who is lucky enough to be born in the right environment has all the potential to do what they wish for their life. Many places have many restrictions and limitations, and it has nothing to do with the potential of the individual.
The poorest standard of living in some countries is better than the richest in some very poor countries.
0 Replies
 
popeye1945
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Jan, 2021 10:02 pm
Regarding the tree falling in the forest with no biological being, being present. Some say it is a matter of defination. Not so, sound is the effect of an affect upon one's eardrum, which makes it a subjective experience, for example not out there.
Agent Smith
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 15 Nov, 2022 01:00 am
@Raishu-tensho,
Whether the water coming out of yer house's taps is clean and potable depends on what kinda H2O purification process your water company utilizes, oui mon ami?
0 Replies
 
The Anointed
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 25 Nov, 2022 05:24 am
@popeye1945,
Forget about the silent shock wave striking an eardrum and converted to electric pulses that are sent to the brain where those silent waves are perceived as sound, the fragrance of the flowers floating on the morning breeze is no more than scentless molecules, which need the created senses of a biological being to be converted to the sweet aroma that we perceive.

In fact, without a physical biological observer, there would be no physical universe. Sight, sound, smell, taste, touch etc, are all secondary creations of the created biological beings.
htam9876
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Nov, 2022 05:57 am
@The Anointed,
Perhaps before you young boy not yet born and open you eyes to observe, this physical universe already existed long ago.
 https://img.zcool.cn/community/01ae635dd385bba8012129e26938db.gif
The Anointed
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 25 Nov, 2022 04:38 pm
@htam9876,
Quote:
Perhaps before you young boy not yet born and open you eyes to observe, this physical universe already existed long ago.

And perhaps one day when the little fat piglet can muster up the energy to extract itself from its wallow of stinking muck and wash that muck from its eyes and ears, it may begin to see that all so called physical matter is nothing more than an illusion.

It may begin to hear the music of the vibrating universe and see that all that we perceive as physical matter is no more than invisible energy that requires the created senses of the created biological beings in order to be perceived as physical matter.

The little piglet may begin to realise that its body is no more than a gathering of atoms and that atoms have no physical structure, the piglet has no physical structure, physical things really don’t have any physical structure! Atoms are made out of invisible energy, not tangible matter.

Pioneering physicist Sir James Jeans wrote: “The stream of knowledge is heading toward a non-mechanical reality; the universe begins to look more like ‘A GREAT THOUGHT’ than like a great machine. Mind no longer appears to be an accidental intruder into the realm of matter, we ought rather hail it as the creator and governor of the realm of matter. (R. C. Henry, “The Mental Universe”; Nature 436:29, 2005)

Have a wonderful Christmas HAM.
htam9876
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Nov, 2022 05:21 pm
@The Anointed,
Piggy is very thin…

What “pioneering physicist”? and what * journal? They all have lagged behind one era. QM has been proved as a “flawed” tooth. Illusive perception of the world has been ended up. Not yet AWARE of it?

Seems we have to “travel back in time” to talk that thing again: if you consider your body illusive, how can Lord anoint his oil onto it?
http://img.adoutu.com/picture/1538466890044.gif

Piggy ever agrees that physical matter could be much more complicated than what we can see in this 3D space. But piggy also agrees geometry is a valid mathematical – physics method to research and DESCRIBE nature. What we can do is touchy and feely step by step.

Science has passed the crossroads.
It’s just a problem facing mankind which can’t be solved by human.

After the crossroads are two roads extending in two different directions. Which road to go is up to one’s own choice. 呵呵

Piggy really has no spare time to argue with who here. Sorry.
Have a lovely day.
The Anointed
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 25 Nov, 2022 07:09 pm
@htam9876,
Quote:
After the crossroads are two roads extending in two different directions. Which road to go is up to one’s own choice.

And it appears that poor piggy has chosen the wrong road.
htam9876
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Nov, 2022 09:06 pm
@The Anointed,
If you can tell piggy how Lord anointed his oil onto your illusive body, piggy will follow you. No doubt.
 https://img.zcool.cn/community/01ae635dd385bba8012129e26938db.gif
Rabbit has “tooth decay”. But he is not willing to see the doctor, that’s wrong.
http://5b0988e595225.cdn.sohucs.com/images/20181018/28caf75000814249af05b89994854586.jpeg
steve reid
 
  0  
Reply Sat 26 Nov, 2022 12:09 pm
@The Anointed,
The Anointed wrote:

Forget about the silent shock wave striking an eardrum and converted to electric pulses that are sent to the brain where those silent waves are perceived as sound, the fragrance of the flowers floating on the morning breeze is no more than scentless molecules, which need the created senses of a biological being to be converted to the sweet aroma that we perceive.

I like this but I'd prefer "pressure wave" to "shock wave"

The Anointed wrote:
In fact, without a physical biological observer, there would be no physical universe. Sight, sound, smell, taste, touch etc, are all secondary creations of the created biological beings.

As an observer would be made out of the same matter that makes up the universe, how can the observer physically exist ?
The Anointed
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 26 Nov, 2022 03:14 pm
@htam9876,
Quote:
If you can tell piggy how Lord anointed his oil onto your illusive body, piggy will follow you. No doubt.

So, Piggy who said that he really has no spare time to argue the subject here, has suddenly found some spare time.

Let me now ask the pig; "who said the Lord anointed my body of vibrating atoms?"

Nowhere is it said that even Jesus was anointed by the Lord, Jesus was anointed by a young woman who lived in the town of Bethany and was the sister of Lazarus and according to Mark 14; 8-9; “She anointed him by pouring perfume on his body to prepare it ahead of time for burial.

So, the little self- confessed skinny Ham, doesn’t have a clue as to who I was anointed by or for what purpose I was anointed, but I assume the Ham has the intelligence to know that his body was created from the atoms of earths elements, and that those atoms of energy have no physical structure and therefore his body in reality, has no physical structure, yet it does have certain created senses that would allow it to feel if fragrant oils were poured on its head and to smell the sweet aroma of those perfumed oils, which oil are created from scentless molecules that were created from atoms which have no physical structure.

Knowing that no two atoms have the same wobble, meaning that every atom has its own unique signature, I long to see the day when man’s technology can reduce a seemingly material object to its individual atoms and project them along beams of energy and reconstruct them into their original form. And it will Happen young piggy, it is recorded in man's Psyche.
0 Replies
 
The Anointed
 
  0  
Reply Sat 26 Nov, 2022 06:40 pm
@steve reid,
Quote:
As an observer would be made out of the same matter that makes up the universe, how can the observer physically exist ?

NO! the observer would be made out of the same electromagnetic energy as is the universe.

The first law of thermodynamics is the same as the first law of conservation and that is, that energy can neither be created or destroyed. If energy cannot be created, then it always was, and If it can never be destroyed, it always will be. Therefore, according to this law, energy must be eternal, having neither beginning or end. Energy can be and is converted to that which we perceive as matter. In fact, this apparent material universe at the time of the Big Bang, was pure electromagnetic energy, which, in my opinion was spewed out of a ‘WHITE HOLE,’ in the trillions upon trillions of degrees, or, according to scientific measurements (180 million trillion, trillion degrees Fahrenheit), which electromagnetic energy has been converted to that which we perceive as matter, only to be reconverted to its original form as electromagnetic energy during the phase of the Big Crunch, when all will be ripped apart atom by atom, subatomic particle by subatomic particle, and fall as fire into the Great Abyss, or Black Hole that is connected to a White Hole at the end of an Einstein Rosen bridge that connects the two.

Pioneering physicist Sir James Jeans wrote: “The stream of knowledge is heading toward a non-mechanical reality; the universe begins to look more like ‘A GREAT THOUGHT’ than like a great machine. Mind no longer appears to be an accidental intruder into the realm of matter, we ought rather hail it as the creator and governor of the realm of matter. (R. C. Henry, “The Mental Universe”; Nature 436:29, 2005)

If you believe that a universe of mindless matter has produced beings with intrinsic ends, [in Kantian terminology, an end-in-itself] --------- self- replication capabilities, and “coded chemistry”? Then you must accept that it is the eternal energy, which has neither beginning or end, that has become this material universe and has developed a mind that is the compilation of all the information gathered by all the diverse life-forms that ‘IT’ [The Eternal Energy] has become, the collective consciousness of all that it is.

Every living thing within this apparent boundless cosmos, are merely information gatherers for the eternal energy which manifests itself as this living universe and is all that exists and is, ’The Great Thought’ the collective consciousness of all that exists. At any given point in time, you are no more than inches away from a spider, fly, ant, or any other of the many information gatherers of the eternal, who is all that exists.

Jeremiah 23: 23-24; “I am a God who is everywhere and not in one place only. No one can hide where I cannot see him. Do you not know that I am everywhere in heaven and on earth?

He has eyes and ears everywhere.

This nano technology, it really frightens me
They can make a flying camera that looks just like a bee
Can spiders, ants, and house flies transmit the things I say
Can our words and all our actions be recorded every day?

I remember back when I was young, I’s no more’n a lad
Sometimes I’d be at home alone and doin something bad
And I’d turn mums crucifix around so He couldn’t see me do it
But now I think of all this nano stuff and I think I might have blew it

Once you understand that God is all, you’d have to be half blind
Not to realise that everything feeds into that great mind
All them spiders in the corners, ants in every crack and nook,
Were filming everything I did, now it’s recorded in Gods book.

But that don’t really bother me, cos I know it’s tightly sealed
And only one’s allowed to open it---and you know? Somehow I feel
He’s not the sort what runs around accusing everyone
And though He lives in me, one day I’ll be, in Him, God’s only Son.

And that which we call God, through whom all things were created, by whom all things were created and for whom all things were created, the God, who is one, the great singularity in who all things exist, is the same today as it was yesterday and will be into all eternity. It is the eternal constant, in that it has been constantly evolving, and will continue to evolve from everlasting to everlasting. The only mind that can cease to evolve, is the mind that has ceased to exist.
steve reid
 
  0  
Reply Sun 27 Nov, 2022 01:52 am
@The Anointed,
The Anointed wrote:
Energy can be and is converted to that which we perceive as matter.

I'd always assumed atoms had a physical structure, and that energy didn't

The Anointed wrote:
If you observe the composition of an atom with a microscope you would see a small, invisible tornado-like vortex, with a number of infinitely small energy vortices called quarks and photons. These are what make up the structure of the atom. As you focused in closer and closer on the structure of the atom, you would see nothing, you would observe a physical void.

The atom has no physical structure, we have no physical structure, physical things really don’t have any physical structure! Atoms are made out of invisible energy, not tangible matter.

After reading this I accepted that atoms may not have a physical structure, but even if true, the "invisible energy, not tangible matter" has the same effect it did as when I'd assumed it had physical form. My perception/assumption of it being physical or non physical makes no diference to the atom or how it interacts with the universe

As to ‘A GREAT THOUGHT’, first "a thought" has to be defined, what is "a thought", and how is "a thought" envisaged

To me a thought is not some intangible or incorporeal something that floats around in my mind, a thought is a firing of neurons in a particular pattern that is generated by an electro/chemical process. This process occurs regardless of atoms being composed of a physical structure or electromagnetic energy

The Anointed wrote:
Once you understand that God is all, ......

If you remember, I don't have faith, so when I'm at home alone and doin something bad, there's no one watching Very Happy or keeping score
The Anointed
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 27 Nov, 2022 02:55 am
@steve reid,
Quote:
If you remember, I don't have faith, so when I'm at home alone and doin something bad, there's no one watching Very Happy or keeping score

I am sure that you do have faith in something, the fact that you don’t believe, does not change the reality, that the singularity of origin is all that exists and that every life form that the singularity has become, are simply information gatherers for the ever evolving universal mind that is the invisible reality of the universe, from which all being originates and to which all being must return at the close of each period of universal activity.

A singularity is a region of space-time in which the photons, the quantum of the electromagnetic energy, are crushed so closely together that the gravitational laws explained by general relativity break down. In a singularity, the volume of space is zero and its density is infinite. Scientists believe such a singularity exists at the core of a black hole, which occurs when a super-massive sun reaches the end of its life and implodes.

General relativity also demands such a singularity must exist at the beginning of an expanding universe. And each expanding universe is eventually swallowed by the Great Abyss=Black Hole and returned to the singularity once again, where there is no space and therefore no momentum, meaning no time.
steve reid
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Nov, 2022 12:03 pm
@The Anointed,
The Anointed wrote:
I am sure that you do have faith in something, the fact that you don’t believe, does not change the reality, that the singularity of origin is all that exists and that every life form that the singularity has become, are simply information gatherers for the ever evolving universal mind that is the invisible reality of the universe, from which all being originates and to which all being must return at the close of each period of universal activity.

An intriguing story, but not how I believe the evolution of the universe is playing out.

If I had faith then I would have God given free will, but I don't and I've come to believe that free will is an illusion, everything is cause and effect.

In everyday life I don't see random anything, anywhere. Nature is precise, it doesn't work to a tolerance. The universe is performing an eternal cosmic dance, that is perfectly choreographed by the laws of physics down to the last atom. Everything is cause and effect, and the dance goes on.
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Nov, 2022 12:40 pm
@steve reid,
Does it really matter when or how. Knowing it all, would it change the way you live?

No. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter.

0 Replies
 
 

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