40
   

How can we be sure?

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Fri 2 Dec, 2022 10:29 am
@Jasper10,
Jasper10 wrote:

I don’t guess Frank.I hope.What is the point of guessing like you say.




Well you present your hopes as guess...and then disguise those guesses by offering them as they were truths being revealed by you.

You scoff at those you suppose to be dualists...which means you have made the blind guess that dualism is not part of the true nature of the REALITY of existence.

All it is...is a guess.
Jasper10
 
  -2  
Fri 2 Dec, 2022 12:33 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I absolutely don’t guess when it comes to not being able to cancel out the magnetic forces N and S in nature.

That is a FACT which totally contradicts the present atheistic science that sells itself as natures science.

I don’t guess when it comes to dualism and double mindedness either.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Fri 2 Dec, 2022 12:51 pm
@Jasper10,
Jasper10 wrote:

I absolutely don’t guess when it comes to not being able to cancel out the magnetic forces N and S in nature.


I have no idea of how your mind works with regard to magnetic forces, but science has pretty much figured out how magnetic forces work...and has developed equations to use for calculating such forces.

If you want to blindly guess they are wrong...no problemo. I suspect most scientists (whether atheists or devote theists) would laugh in your face if you do. In fact, I suspect that any intelligent individual would do the same.

Quote:
That is a FACT which totally contradicts the present atheistic science that sells itself as natures science.


I do not know what in the Hell you are talking about here...and I suspect you don't either. But if that horseshit contradicts what the establish science says about magnetic forces...my money would go on the scientists rather than the babbler.

Quote:
I don’t guess when it comes to dualism and double mindedness either.


Horseshit. You guess that you KNOW some specifics about the true nature of the REALITY of existence...and you proclaim it like an immature egoist. You are good for laughs, but not much more.

If you want to actually discuss the true nature of the REALITY of existence, get off your high horse...stop the bullshit...and let's start some serious discussion.
Jasper10
 
  -2  
Fri 2 Dec, 2022 01:06 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank.I really don’t care what atheistic or theistic scientists claim about magnetic forces cancelling out.They don’t cancel out Frank they balance in nature.It is impossible to cancel them out and if there is a scientist anywhere in the world who thinks they can prove me wrong then let them try.

The FACT that they don’t means you have to put both forces on both side of the balancing equation,

FACT.

Atheistic science and the philosophy it is based upon is FALSE

Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Fri 2 Dec, 2022 01:43 pm
@Jasper10,
Jasper10 wrote:

Frank.I really don’t care what atheistic or theistic scientists claim about magnetic forces cancelling out.They don’t cancel out Frank they balance in nature.It is impossible to cancel them out and if there is a scientist anywhere in the world who thinks they can prove me wrong then let them try.

The FACT that they don’t means you have to put both forces on both side of the balancing equation,

FACT.

Atheistic science and the philosophy it is based upon is FALSE


Okay, so you do not want to have a reasonable discussion. I accept that...and frankly, I don't blame you. You are in an intellectual shoot out, of sorts, with a marksman...and you are armed with nothing but a dull penknife.

Anyway, your comment, "FACT. Atheistic science and the philosophy it is based upon is FALSE"... is absurd, and is itself FALSE.

It is not a FACT...it is YOUR OPINION.

I have no problem with you continuing this kind of amateurish nonsense (in fact, I get a kick out of it), but you really should take this sort of thing back to the sandbox. Your friends there will be a lot more receptive than the adults here.

Jasper10
 
  -2  
Fri 2 Dec, 2022 02:26 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank,it is my opinion and it is a FACT.

2 separated and different forces of nature and you need both these different forces to interact with other spinning matter in nature with identical forces to obtain balance and to ensure that matter is held together.





The Anointed
 
  -1  
Fri 2 Dec, 2022 05:37 pm
@steve reid,
Quote:
_God, the bible and my understanding of it.I know of the two deaths, after the first death the deceased is aware of nothing, then when judgement by God comes if they are found wanting, they would not be resurrected (resurrected as in body, spirit or both, I don't know) _

Re: God, the bible and your lack of understanding of both.

To begin with, the mind and the spirit are one and the same. When the body in which you [the mind] are being formed, dies, [This is the first death] and your body of “skin, flesh, muscle, blood, bone, brain matter etc, etc,” has returned to the universal elements from which it was created, all that remains, is a shadow or rather, a facsimile of YOU, the mind or spirit, that has been imprinted into the universal life force or soul, etc.

Read Luke 16: 19-31. Take special note of verses 29 to 31; “Abraham said, ‘Your brothers have Moses and the prophets to warn them; your brothers should listen to what they say.’ The rich man answered, ‘That is not enough, father Abraham! But if someone were to rise from death and go to them, then they would turn from their sins.’ But Abraham said, ‘If they will not listen to Moses and the prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone were to rise from death.’ ”

Isaiah 57: 1-2; Good people die, and no one understands or even cares. But when they die, no calamity can hurt them. 2Those who live good lives find peace and rest in death.
I wonder what state awaits the unrepentant wicked when they die as they await the great day of Judgement?

Quote:
I believe I die once and that is the end of/for me as a living being, and this doesn't trouble me. As I don't have faith I don't believe in a soul or spirit.


And you are free to believe whatsoever you choose to believe according to your own free will, which belief is totally opposed to mine.

This body that you see It isn’t really me
It’s but the womb in which I’m being formed
For I am spirit, I am mind
And it’s the only place you’ll find
‘Who I Am’ until the day I’m finally born
For I will not be free, until this body that you see
Has returned to the earth from whence it came
It’s then that I’ll be born from this womb in which I’m formed
To carry on in life’s eternal game.

If that body in which your parental spirit dwells, were born without the sense of sight, hearing, smell, taste, touch, etc, then no information whatsoever could be taken into the brain, and “YOU” who are spirit [Gathered information] could never have begun to develop and the living body, in which the parental spirit dwells, would soon die, never having developed a personality or “CONTROLLING GODHEAD” to that body, etc.

Quote:
.... I was confused by the fire, brimstone and everlasting torment, this is not what I would expect from a loving God


How can there be everlasting torment for the unrepentant wicked if they die the second death which is that of the MIND=SPIRIT.

Quote:
If I (my body) or my soul, spirit or mind is given "The eternal punishment. Everlasting oblivion", of being dead and of no way to return then surely, I won't be aware of such?


Correct! Once “YOU” the mind have been separated from the immortal soul, you will be aware of nothing. The God given soul will then be given a new body in which to develop a new spirit in a more righteous society.

After having ceased to exist, the rejected will be aware of nothing, it is before the second death, when they realise, NOT what is going to happen to them, but what they have missed out on, that the weeping and gnashing of teeth will be heard among the unrepentant wicked.
Jasper10
 
  -1  
Sat 3 Dec, 2022 12:27 am
@Jasper10,
As atheists hope that they are nothing more than dualistic data processors of information (thoughts) and emotional reactors produced by a biological machine their science and philosophy reflects that and is incorrect.

Atheists know nothing about consciousness and therefore have zero understanding and control of it or the implications of it.

The human experience suggests that we need to understand consciousness to be able to understand science and philosophy and ourselves.

It’s impossible to understand consciousness unless you introduce control.The issue for the atheist is,who or what is introducing that control if the who or what doesn’t exist according to their hopeful belief systems.

As atheists cannot get past this hurdle they remain trapped on the “hamsters wheel”.


Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Sat 3 Dec, 2022 07:12 am
@Jasper10,
Jasper10 wrote:

Frank,it is my opinion and it is a FACT.

2 separated and different forces of nature and you need both these different forces to interact with other spinning matter in nature with identical forces to obtain balance and to ensure that matter is held together.


Your comment, "Atheistic science and the philosophy it is based upon is FALSE"...is false...and is better described as bullshit. Actually, it is even better described as pathetic bullshit occasioned by a bullshitter's absurd assertions that he knows more than all the scientists of the world.

You are pathetic, Jasper. You would serve yourself best by finally noticing that.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Sat 3 Dec, 2022 07:14 am
@The Anointed,
The Anointed wrote:


Quote:
_God, the bible and my understanding of it.I know of the two deaths, after the first death the deceased is aware of nothing, then when judgement by God comes if they are found wanting, they would not be resurrected (resurrected as in body, spirit or both, I don't know) _

Re: God, the bible and your lack of understanding of both.

To begin with, the mind and the spirit are one and the same. When the body in which you [the mind] are being formed, dies, [This is the first death] and your body of “skin, flesh, muscle, blood, bone, brain matter etc, etc,” has returned to the universal elements from which it was created, all that remains, is a shadow or rather, a facsimile of YOU, the mind or spirit, that has been imprinted into the universal life force or soul, etc.

Read Luke 16: 19-31. Take special note of verses 29 to 31; “Abraham said, ‘Your brothers have Moses and the prophets to warn them; your brothers should listen to what they say.’ The rich man answered, ‘That is not enough, father Abraham! But if someone were to rise from death and go to them, then they would turn from their sins.’ But Abraham said, ‘If they will not listen to Moses and the prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone were to rise from death.’ ”

Isaiah 57: 1-2; Good people die, and no one understands or even cares. But when they die, no calamity can hurt them. 2Those who live good lives find peace and rest in death.
I wonder what state awaits the unrepentant wicked when they die as they await the great day of Judgement?

Quote:
I believe I die once and that is the end of/for me as a living being, and this doesn't trouble me. As I don't have faith I don't believe in a soul or spirit.


And you are free to believe whatsoever you choose to believe according to your own free will, which belief is totally opposed to mine.

This body that you see It isn’t really me
It’s but the womb in which I’m being formed
For I am spirit, I am mind
And it’s the only place you’ll find
‘Who I Am’ until the day I’m finally born
For I will not be free, until this body that you see
Has returned to the earth from whence it came
It’s then that I’ll be born from this womb in which I’m formed
To carry on in life’s eternal game.

If that body in which your parental spirit dwells, were born without the sense of sight, hearing, smell, taste, touch, etc, then no information whatsoever could be taken into the brain, and “YOU” who are spirit [Gathered information] could never have begun to develop and the living body, in which the parental spirit dwells, would soon die, never having developed a personality or “CONTROLLING GODHEAD” to that body, etc.

Quote:
.... I was confused by the fire, brimstone and everlasting torment, this is not what I would expect from a loving God


How can there be everlasting torment for the unrepentant wicked if they die the second death which is that of the MIND=SPIRIT.

Quote:
If I (my body) or my soul, spirit or mind is given "The eternal punishment. Everlasting oblivion", of being dead and of no way to return then surely, I won't be aware of such?


Correct! Once “YOU” the mind have been separated from the immortal soul, you will be aware of nothing. The God given soul will then be given a new body in which to develop a new spirit in a more righteous society.

After having ceased to exist, the rejected will be aware of nothing, it is before the second death, when they realise, NOT what is going to happen to them, but what they have missed out on, that the weeping and gnashing of teeth will be heard among the unrepentant wicked.



Wow! There is some very interesting blind guessing going on there TA. I wonder if even a tiny bit of it is true.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Sat 3 Dec, 2022 07:15 am
@Jasper10,
Jasper10 wrote:


As atheists hope that they are nothing more than dualistic data processors of information (thoughts) and emotional reactors produced by a biological machine their science and philosophy reflects that and is incorrect.

Atheists know nothing about consciousness and therefore have zero understanding and control of it or the implications of it.

The human experience suggests that we need to understand consciousness to be able to understand science and philosophy and ourselves.

It’s impossible to understand consciousness unless you introduce control.The issue for the atheist is,who or what is introducing that control if the who or what doesn’t exist according to their hopeful belief systems.

As atheists cannot get past this hurdle they remain trapped on the “hamsters wheel”.


I am not an atheist, but this opinion of yours is pathetic.
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Sat 3 Dec, 2022 07:25 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank, I just have to know, when you read this:

Quote:
As atheists hope that they are nothing more than dualistic data processors of information (thoughts) and emotional reactors produced by a biological machine their science and philosophy reflects that and is incorrect.

Atheists know nothing about consciousness and therefore have zero understanding and control of it or the implications of it.


Did you pass out from lack of oxygen from laughing too hard? That is classic coming off an amphetamine/booze jag scribbling. You have infinite more patience than me with this crap though it allows you to thoroughly drub both of these chimps.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 3 Dec, 2022 08:06 am
@bobsal u1553115,
bobsal u1553115 wrote:


Frank, I just have to know, when you read this:

Quote:
As atheists hope that they are nothing more than dualistic data processors of information (thoughts) and emotional reactors produced by a biological machine their science and philosophy reflects that and is incorrect.

Atheists know nothing about consciousness and therefore have zero understanding and control of it or the implications of it.


Did you pass out from lack of oxygen from laughing too hard? That is classic coming off an amphetamine/booze jag scribbling. You have infinite more patience than me with this crap though it allows you to thoroughly drub both of these chimps.


That was an incredible statement coming from anyone with enough intelligence to spell CAT.

How does anyone with a functioning brain heap all atheists into one disposition...especially one so narrowly contrived and absurd as he so frequently does?

He is pathetic. But I will continue to respond, because I feel he needs the help.

bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Sat 3 Dec, 2022 08:08 am
@Frank Apisa,
And I appreciate the entertainment when you do!.
0 Replies
 
Jasper10
 
  -2  
Sat 3 Dec, 2022 09:38 am
@Frank Apisa,
Come on Frank,

Have you ever tried getting beyond your dualist reasoning thoughts?

We are not thoughts for goodness sake.

Consciousness is what separates from machine like dualistic reasoning.

Does your philosophy stop at thoughts?
steve reid
 
  1  
Sat 3 Dec, 2022 09:54 am
@The Anointed,
The Anointed wrote:

And you are free to believe whatsoever you choose to believe according to your own free will, which belief is totally opposed to mine.

Yes we are on opposite sides, both in relation to God and free will.

Thank you for your time and clarification on these issues.

Kind regards Smile steve
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Sat 3 Dec, 2022 11:01 am
@Jasper10,
Jasper10 wrote:

Come on Frank,

Have you ever tried getting beyond your dualist reasoning thoughts?

We are not thoughts for goodness sake.

Consciousness is what separates from machine like dualistic reasoning.

Does your philosophy stop at thoughts?


Stop, Jasper.

Your guesses that dualism is NOT...is nothing more than a guess.

Live with that.

You remind me of hard theists or hard athesits...who INSIST there is a GOD or who INSIST there are no gods.

Good guesses...and one seems to be correct.

But that's the way with guesses. They can be correct...which means they can be wrong.

Get out of the confines of your guesses. Accept that they can be wrong.
Jasper10
 
  -2  
Sat 3 Dec, 2022 12:03 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank …I don’t guess …I hope and make use of the dualistic nonsense.It’s all about balance.

That is how I know that atheistic science is utter nonsense.It isn’t balanced.

You are not thoughts Frank….so what are you?
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Sat 3 Dec, 2022 02:01 pm
@Jasper10,
Jasper10 wrote:

Frank …I don’t guess …I hope and make use of the dualistic nonsense.It’s all about balance.

That is how I know that atheistic science is utter nonsense.It isn’t balanced.

You are not thoughts Frank….so what are you?


You are pathetic, Jasper.

I offered you a chance for a reasonable discussion.

Instead, you insist on your guesses as fact.

Like I said, you are pathetic.
0 Replies
 
 

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