How can we be sure?

@north,

So they would die. That doesn't mean they could not be there... alive for a while and then dead.

1 Reply

@igm,

igm wrote:

So they would die. That doesn't mean they could not be there... alive for a while and then dead.

no plants are there , at all

1 Reply

@north,

Thanks for the discussion. Smile

1 Reply

@igm,

igm wrote:

Thanks for the discussion.

like wise

2 Replies

@north,

But should we keep in mind that "Arctic" and "rubber tree" are treated here as variables subsuming more detailed variables? The definition of a rubber true, when very detailed, will include conditons and requirements contrary to conditions that make up a detailed definition of the Arctic. That's why we can have, at least in principle, a hot house located in "the Artic" grossly defined.

1 Reply

@JLNobody,

JLNobody wrote:

But should we keep in mind that "Arctic" and "rubber tree" are treated here as variables subsuming more detailed variables? The definition of a rubber true, when very detailed, will include conditons and requirements contrary to conditions that make up a detailed definition of the Arctic. That's why we can have, at least in principle, a hot house located in "the Artic" grossly defined.

understood

but completely impractible

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@north,

north wrote:

igm wrote:

Thanks for the discussion.

like wise

P.S. As you know in philosophy it ‘only’ has to be ‘logically possible’ not practically possible to throw doubt on a proposition like: I can know (something) for sure.

1 Reply

@igm,

igm wrote:

north wrote:

igm wrote:

Thanks for the discussion.

like wise

P.S. As you know in philosophy it ‘only’ has to be ‘logically possible’ not practically possible to throw doubt on a proposition like: I can know (something) for sure.

but as you know as well that " reason(ing) " is the essence of logic

so the ability to reason it out defeats any logic

reasoning then throws out any doubt on any proposition, such as " I can know something for sure "

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I guess my "final" word on this subject is that we don't just want an answer to the question How can we BE sure? We want to answer the question--despite its recognition of the primacy of subjectivity--How can we FEEL sure?

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@Raishu-tensho,

Raishu-tensho wrote:

If a tree falls in the middle of a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?
According to philosophy, it makes no sound because there is no one to hear it, but according to science, it makes a sound because of the vibrations of the tree hitting the earth (probably a lot more complex, but that is off topic).
My question is, is anything certain? Can we be sure of an outcome merely because it has been done? Or because logic dictates such? Is there any real truth to it, or can that not be decided?

It will not make a sound, but it will make vibrations. A sound is made iff there is a membrane that is acted upon by the vibrations. There you go.

1 Reply

@Ding an Sich,

(On the epistemic problem)
...let me play around as a devil´s advocate for a second...
...can the concept "vibrations" ever refer to the vibrations themselves ? Are you not repeating the same mistake with the term "vibrations" instead of sound, but only in a more elaborate way ? A thing does not refer by instantiation alone, no matter how hard we want it to do so...in fact reference is always symbolic, since what is, only itself alone fully instantiates its own beingness...more, a description even if fully reproducing a phenomena, like in information theory, is not the phenomena X but the reproduction of the phenomena X...therefore its X1 ! Logic dictates X1 is not X !...

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@Raishu-tensho,

We can never be sure, that's what philosophy is asking questions without an expected or even no answer at all. Reality is what we make of it, we can only be sure of what WE are sure about. there is no certainty in life except that there is no certainty. so technically we can be sure that were not sure but are we absolutely certain that their isn't certainty. No, it all leads down one big spiral. So what I believe is that I am only certain of what I believe in because life is what we make it out to be. I am certain about myself but nothing else. being sure creates the opportunity for failure but not being sure creates opportunity

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@Lustig Andrei,

I can only reply most of what we believe to be objective is merely subjective. To plagiarize a thought from Thomas Jefferson "If it doesn't steal from or harm, then it is a starting point to evaluate".

As far as women go? Got to love them, speaking for myself, when I get too full of myself like a hot air balloon, they are willing to let a little air out and bring me GENTLY back to Earth. The cynical, sarcastic who use destructive criticism I drop quickly.

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@Raishu-tensho,

Can we be sure of an outcome merely because it has been done?

Being sure is a perceptive feeling that can't be shared. Talk about it yes, even compare it with other feelings, but the feeling itself belongs to just one person.

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@Raishu-tensho,

By the evidence of things we can't see.

1 Reply

@demonhunter,

Being sure is a perceptive feeling that can't be shared. Talk about it yes, even compare it with other feelings, but the feeling itself belongs to just one person.> Richard

Re: Raishu-tensho (Post 4700220)
By the evidence of things we can't see.

I don't see how or where evidence relates with feeling. Have I missed something?

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@Raishu-tensho,

If a tree falls in the middle of a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

The logical answer is, "It's your story. Did it or didn't it?"

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@Rickoshay75,

Confidence is the evidence.

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@Rickoshay75,

Rickoshay75 wrote:

If a tree falls in the middle of a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound? The logical answer is, "It's your story. Did it or didn't it?"

reasonably , yes

would the breaking of your car window by a thief , of which you and nobody else heard at night , take away the reality in the morning your window is broken ......

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@Raishu-tensho,

Honestly, how do we know there even is a tree? Science would say that yes it would make a sound, but since we would have to observe it to find out, we wouldn't find out. So the simple idea of something making no sound isn't entirely off the wall. I figure if a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it matter? I know for a fact that I never heard a tree fall that I was not near, so I have never heard a tree fall that I didn't hear, so in essence no, it would not make a sound. Science can prove nothing without experimentation and that would alter the effects of the exercise itself.

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