EPA pays (with your money) to be sued

Show me where "American Industry" has cleaned up its environmental act without regulations. Regulations have given birth to a whole bunch of new industries represented here onA2K by many conservatives.

Water purifiers
labs
engineerin companies
environmental consulting
air equipment
plastics and liner manufacturing
NEMA
plenty more where they came from.

Unfortunately, those businesses you mention will be killed off by Obamanomics and Obamacare.

Wow waterdude, your logic here is quite inspirational---could you break that thought into something besides Bachmann/Palin inspired realpolitik. I mean could you put it into a syllogism.

You see, waterdude, I've been trained in the natural sciences and mathematics and my strict emotional ideas have been suppressed in favor of a following concepts that are factual and reproducible.

Rap

Having congress pass environmental laws is one thing, congress is still quasi accountable as that last election demonstrated; having a rogue government agency with zero accountability passing laws with major impact on the nation's economy is not rational and could lead to a second civil war.

Environmentalists like to talk about the situation which existed from the fifties into the mid 70s and what they don't seem to remember terribly well is that the gigantic industrial efforts of that age which were associated with those kinds of environmental problems were the most major factors in winning WW-II and preventing a Nazi takeover of the world and also in feeding and supplying the world for ten or fifteen years after that when no other industrialized nation was yet functioning again.

On the federal level laws are still only enacted by congressional action--draft regulations are written by the agencies tasked with enforcing those laws. In addition, the those draft regulations require approval by the same congressional and executive legislators prior to becoming enforceable.

As far as I can discern the 'rogue' agencies that are not accountable do not exist--I will admit that many regulations are mutually in contradiction, but that is the result of laws passed by congress aimed at different agencies--for instance conflicts between 'transportation safety' and 'environmental protection' but that mostly is the result of the lack of scientific training that generally exists among our elected legislators.

IOW we need more engineers, physicists, biologists, and mathematicians among our elected legislators and less MBAs, tax attorneys, and economists.

Rap

The EPA is able to force legislation on states:

http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/125187013.html




At some point, you either have democratic government or you don't, and rogue agencies enforcing laws is not compatible with democracy.

The environment doesn't recognize the borders of states and as a result environmental regulations and the enforcement capacity of the EPA fall under the 'the Commerce Clause' of the Constitution (Article I, Section 8, Clause 3).

If you want to bitch about the enforcement powers of the EPA I'd recommend you take it up with the Supreme Court. Although I wouldn't bet on your chances even with the Roberts Court.

Rap

Do you often contradict yourself like that?

What contradiction Ganja? The EPA is a federal agency or the Constitution is the guiding law of the land? In either case your point in drastically in need of further elucidation.

Rap

Anyway, several states are noit signers of , say Vlean Water, or Clean Air. so they have thweir own regs that , in most cases , actually exceed what EPA has been enforcing.

Each age has lweft us with several legacies , many of which are toxic. Are you now saying that we should return to "the good old days" when coal companies have defiled entire river systems or poisoned wells? The very problem we are now faced with in gas drilling is that, under GW Bush, the gas and oil drillwers were exwepmpeted fro all Federal WEnvironmental laws. This is starting to coem home to roost.
ANYTHING of the extraction inindustries will continue despite intensity of wnvironmental rules. For example, where is the gas in the BArnett Shale or the Marcellus Shale going? WHy must the drillwers pollute entire river systems and water supplies (And this is doen without any recourse unless laws are reversed)
Bush and the puppetmaster DArk Lord , Cheney, have taken and fucked up environmental progress jsut to enrich theirbuddies. This will ahve no impact on your wallet unless yu live in the gas fields of PA, La, Tex, ND, WVa orColo. (then you will be faced with trying to get your life back in ordwer while the gas companies foul your water and air)

Your arguments are nonsense and you are trying to sound like some fat cat who is a partjer of Williams Drlling or HAlliburton, and you dont have a clue whats really the issue

I always considered if a states regulations were more stringent than the federal regulation that it was acceptable because the federal limits were being met. The problem was when the states regulation limits were less stringent.

As for industry 'sweet deal' exemptions to environmental and safety regs--that goes well beyond the gas fields. The coal industry suffers from Massey Energy much to the chagrin of many surviving families of many preventable coal mine fatalities.

Rap

yep, there are many examples of regs unproposed , or worse, ratcheted back. Aspects of the thirtweenth amendment are still quoted in m ining law on Indian lands. Indians are the only ethnic group called out in the Constitution and given lesser status .