Tick, tick. August 2nd is the Debt Limit Armageddon. Or Not.

@georgeob1,

Quote:

By what means do you claim to know that " the American People spoken"? And how do you claim to know what they have said ? Their elected representatives are currently involved in a deadlock over the issue, and it is by no means clear that either party has an exclusive lock on "what the American people want".

If history is any judge they want the problem to go away, and they want the government to give them lots of services but they dont want to pay for them.

Hold up a sec, arn't the republicans demanding that we stop this irresponsibility? Wouldn't that be a good thing??

I am so confused!

2 Replies

@hawkeye10,

Except the public is saying they are willing to pay more to keep some of those services but the GOP isn't listening.

1 Reply

@parados,

parados wrote:

Except the public is saying they are willing to pay more to keep some of those services but the GOP isn't listening.

Those on the Right are wanting to shrink government, for a long time Washington has not been listening, I am betting that Washington is listening now. Are you?

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

The idiots on the teabaggers team are playing with dynamite here. In their effort to remain ideologically pure, they will send the nation into a spiral that will affect low income folks most.

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

Those on the Right are wanting to shrink government, for a long time Washington has not been listening, I

No, they haven't wanted to shrink government. They only want to restrict which parts of government are huge. The largest growth in government programs was under a Republican congress and president.

1 Reply

@parados,

Quote:

No, they haven't wanted to shrink government. They only want to restrict which parts of government are huge. The largest growth in government programs was under a Republican congress and president

OH I see, so you have not been paying attention.....Conservative citizens have been extremely pissed that REBUBS once they get to Washington sell them out and continually have voted for big government, so much so that the Tea Party was formed to do something about the situation after after years of trying to reform the GOP had failed to yield the desired results. Now the citizen revolt has voted in their own slate of representatives who are finally doing what REBUBS have long been told to do but who refused. What you are seeing in Washington is democracy in action. Big Government D's and R's are going to capitulate to the forces that want smaller government, because they have the big government proponents by the balls and they have no intention of letting go until their demands are met.

This is how power works people.

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@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:

Because the American people have spoken; they want cuts in spending AND some increase in taxes.

This is about compromise and negotiation; not blackmail. If we don't like what our representatives are doing, replace them. As voters, we have that responsibility.

By what means do you claim to know that " the American People spoken"?

The extensive and consistent polling on the issue, George. Yaknow, the thing you never bother with. It consistently shows that Americans favor a balanced approach of tax increases and spending cuts to deal with the deficit.

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

@parados,

parados wrote:

No matter how you try to make it work Miller... You can't get everyone a job when you have 3 million jobs and 13 million out of work

A good start would be to stop killing American job creating industries through political payoffs to organized labor and environmental advocacy groups. There are new trade deals with nations from South Korea to Colombia that have been waiting for rartification for over two years being held up by labor unions; oil exploration and production shut down along our coasts and in Alaska; much meeded oil pipelines being held up by advocacy groups; Commercial aircraft companies being held hostage to union intransigence (Boeing in South Carolina) while they are locked in life and death competitiuon with foreign competitors; .... and many others.

This administration appears to stroingly prefer to put people on an unsustainable public dole than to permit them to create beneficial economic activity for themselves and others.

1 Reply

@Miller,

What was stimulated? The tax cuts and extension of unemployment benefits helped the majority of Americans. Those tax cuts and benefits provided Americans with more money to spend in the marketplace to save jobs and increase tax revenues. Many economists said the stim bill was not sufficient, and should have spent more - not less.

1 Reply

@parados,

parados, Your math is wrong; the democrats, or least Obama, bent backwards to meet most of the GOP-tea party demands, and they still said "no." That's like the GOP-tea party unwilling to move 100% (and they're still saying no), and the democrats willing to move over 90%.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

What was stimulated? The tax cuts and extension of unemployment benefits helped the majority of Americans.

But not a lasting burst of economic activity. Obama wants to build bridges and repair roads to "stimulate" the economy. But, there are a limited number of bridges to repair and a limited number of roads to fix. Nothing proposed will extend into the future and provide a significant burst in number of jobs that can last a lifetime ( such as was the case for the Steel Mills and the auto industries ), as we've seen in the past.

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@hawkeye10,

hawk, Don't you have any concept of history? GW Bush doubled the debt with $4 to $5 trillion more in expenses than income - all while giving more tax breaks to the rich.

The amount of debt that Obama accumulated since he came into office was spend it on a) tax cuts for everybody, b) extension of unemployment benefits, and c) spending on our infrastructure.

Obama also saved the auto companies that saved some one million jobs; ask the Ford Company CEO who said saving GMC and Chrysler also saved Ford. That means Obama saved the whole American auto industry.

GW Bush started two wars, implemented one of the biggest increase in Medicare benefits, and cut taxes.

You have the gall to talk about Obama?

This is not "how government works." It's how it destroys government and the country in which they seem oblivious to.

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@Miller,

It didn't have to be "a lasting burst," but to stop the bleeding, and trying to strengthen the recovery. It's still a fragile recovery, and the tea party wants to kill it.

As to your limited number of bridges and roads, you don't know what you are talking about. Infrastructure also includes all manners of transportation and communication; all those aspects of a healthy economy.

1 Reply

Conservatives hate to see the federal government spend money unless it is spent on bailing out large corporations.

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Boehner's addition of a Balanced Budget Amendment (BBA) will evidently allow some of the conservative Repubs to pass the Boehner bill out of the House. It will still die in the Senate.
My understanding of amending the constitution starts with the assumption the states initiate it by 34 states demanding (in virtually identical language) that Congress convene a constitutional convention to write and vote on sending it back to the states. 75% of the states' legislatures must approve it.
The BBA up today seems to suggest that Congress can somehow skirt the constitutional convention part of this. But I don't know how that would work. Anyone here have any source for how the Boehner bill does anything beyond kicking the can down the road?

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@Miller,

Miller wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:

What was stimulated? The tax cuts and extension of unemployment benefits helped the majority of Americans.

But not a lasting burst of economic activity. Obama wants to build bridges and repair roads to "stimulate" the economy. But, there are a limited number of bridges to repair and a limited number of roads to fix.

This isn't really accurate. There are far more bridges and roads needing repairs than we currently have money or people able to repair them.

Quote:

Nothing proposed will extend into the future and provide a significant burst in number of jobs that can last a lifetime ( such as was the case for the Steel Mills and the auto industries ), as we've seen in the past.

Yes, but it's not the gov'ts job to provide lasting jobs in perpetuity; at least, under the Conservative vision of government, it isn't.

Cycloptichorn

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@realjohnboy,

Common sense has left this debate a long time ago; it's been on gamesmanship for most of this debate.

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@parados,

parados wrote:

No matter how you try to make it work Miller... You can't get everyone a job when you have 3 million jobs and 13 million out of work

Where does that number of "3 million jobs" come from?

Does it include illegals?

Does it include all the stay at home mothers/fathers who run noncertified day care centers in their homes?

Does it include all the nurses aids, who work in private homes caring for the elderly, but who are paid "under the table" by the individuals involved.

Does it include private investors who trade on a daily basis to gather cash from the stock market?

Does it include all the bottle and trash collectors, who walk the city streets at least 8 hours a day so they can pay rent?

Based on the above ( for example), I believe there are more "jobs" out there then job applicants. It just depends on the nature of the job and the willingness of the public to perform the job. Some folks are too proud to say they're unemployed and on welfare. They gather their rags each and every day and hustle about the City "self employed" in whatever they can do .

One thing never mentioned in the census of who's employed and who's not, is the number of women/men employed as escorts or prostitutes. While these folks don't pay social security or even taxes, for sure these people definietly contribute to the economy.

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

Quote:

A good start would be to stop killing American job creating industries through political payoffs to organized labor and environmental advocacy groups.

Which job creating industries are those george?

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

It didn't have to be "a lasting burst," but to stop the bleeding, and trying to strengthen the recovery. It's still a fragile recovery...

No, not a lasting burst. Obama merely put a band-aid on a major wound. Once the band-aid is torn off the blood will gush forth, pulling the scab with it. Better to not waste your money on a tiny bandage.

1 Reply

Tick, tick. August 2nd is the Debt Limit Armageddon. Or Not.

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