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Tick, tick. August 2nd is the Debt Limit Armageddon. Or Not.

Forums: Politics, U S Politics, Economy, U S Debt Discussion, Nope
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cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2011 01:35 pm
@hawkeye10,
What's the latest polls on Americans who agree that increasing tax revenue is important?
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2011 01:38 pm
@cicerone imposter,


No sane American wants any tax increases and any politician
or president that thinks it's a good idea to raise taxes is insane.

Spending cuts would result in higher net revenues and that would be a good thing.

revelette
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2011 01:45 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
According to the poll, 66 percent of Americans believe that the deal to raise the debt ceiling should include both spending cuts and tax increases. Only 28 percent said they thought the deal should contain spending cuts exclusively, and a mere three percent wanted it to include tax increases only.


[quote]This poll was conducted among a random sample of 810 adults nationwide, interviewed by telephone July 15-17, 2011. The error due to sampling for results based on the entire sample could be plus or minus four percentage points. The error for subgroups is higher. This poll release conforms to the Standards of Disclosure of the National Council on Public Polls.[/quote]

source
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2011 02:02 pm
@revelette,
Thank you. I agree with the majority; tax increases are necessary to maintain support for our children's education and health, and for government to support those who have lost jobs and homes in this time of crisis.

Additionally, our government must cut waste and unnecessary subsidies to corporations and farms. I bet there are many countries we give foreign aid to that are producing the wrong results. All of them needs to be stopped.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2011 02:05 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
I agree with the majority;
Let's be precise...you agree with the majority of the minority, because those who want the debt ceiling raised are the minority from the polls I have seen.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2011 02:07 pm
@hawkeye10,
No. I agree with the majority that 1. there must be spending cuts, and 2. tax increases are in order.
H2O MAN
 
  -3  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2011 02:34 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

No. I agree with the majority that 1. there must be spending cuts, and 2. tax increases are in order.


Yes, the majority does want big common sense spending cuts.
No, the majority does not want any tax increases.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2011 02:38 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
However, during the discussion on the debt ceiling, the democrats signed a petition that "there is no deal on social security and medicare." We are talking about the debt ceiling and adjustments to social security and medicare.

There's adjustments as in "add means-testing to Medicare", and there's adjustments as in "end Medicare as we know it, substitute it with an underfunded voucher system, and continue calling the result "Medicare" so it doesn't look so scary.", which is what the Ryan plan is saying in effect. Democrats are refusing to sign up on on this latter kind of adjustment, but not on changes in general. More power to them for that!
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2011 02:43 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas, I'll post it again, because it seems to disagree with your assumptions.

Quote:
aharding | CNN Political Ticker Friday, July 8
House Democrats: No dice on Medicare, Social Security cuts

Washington (CNN) - Congressional Democrats, frustrated that President Obama is including entitlement changes in debt negotiations, pushed back Friday, insisting they will not support any benefit cuts to Medicare or Social Security.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2011 02:54 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

It's a crime to loot a dedicated Trust of its assets.

We are talking about the assets losing value because the issuer of holdings in the trust defaults.

That is not the same thing as the Trustee looting the assets.

Admittedly there is a cozy relationship between the Trustee and the issuer of the assets in the trust but that would require you to show that the Trustee intended those assets to become worthless. (Something it seems the GOP might be trying to do but I don't know if you really want to make that argument.)
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2011 02:56 pm
@H2O MAN,
Every sane American should realize that defaulting on the US debt will cause tax increases much higher than if we just raise the ceiling with no cuts at all.

If interest on the US debt goes up, we will have to pay more in taxes otherwise all our taxes may well go JUST for that interest. No military, no courts, no SS, NOTHING but debt.
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2011 03:02 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
Washington (CNN) - Congressional Democrats, frustrated that President Obama is including entitlement changes in debt negotiations, pushed back Friday, insisting they will not support any benefit cuts to Medicare or Social Security.

The 2010 reform would have had Medicare means-test treatments, and not pay for the ones it found not to work. Treatments that aren't working have no benefit, so arguably it isn't a benefit cut to cease paying for them. But it would save money, and hence would do the job of reducing the deficit.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2011 03:11 pm
@parados,
What you say is true. The added cost just on a 1% increase in the interest rate would cost us the following - based on the current debt.

The Outstanding Public Debt as of 23 Jul 2011 at 09:02:30 PM GMT is:

...........public debt...............%.........added cost in interest
$14,350,397,462,514.00... 0.01.......$143,503,974,625.14
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2011 03:15 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

What you say is true. The added cost just on a 1% increase in the interest rate would cost us the following - based on the current debt.

The Outstanding Public Debt as of 23 Jul 2011 at 09:02:30 PM GMT is:

...........public debt...............%.........added cost in interest
$14,350,397,462,514.00... 0.01.......$143,503,974,625.14

And I was reading yesterday that the CW is that 1% cost 1.2 million jobs.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2011 03:30 pm
@hawkeye10,
I wouldn't know how that was calculated, but it's probably a good an estimate as can be determined from current conditions in our economy.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2011 04:38 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:

georgeob1 wrote:

It's a crime to loot a dedicated Trust of its assets.

We are talking about the assets losing value because the issuer of holdings in the trust defaults.

That is not the same thing as the Trustee looting the assets.

Admittedly there is a cozy relationship between the Trustee and the issuer of the assets in the trust but that would require you to show that the Trustee intended those assets to become worthless. (Something it seems the GOP might be trying to do but I don't know if you really want to make that argument.)


A typically convoluted argument, well-suited to obscure the obvious conclusion.

It is illegal in the private sector fort a trustee to spend the assets of a trust on anything but the named beneficiaries of the trust, and the legal/ficuciary line is crossed when the trustee, for any reason, fails to make payments mandated by the trust from assets assigned to it.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2011 04:56 pm
@georgeob1,
As per US law, the funds are invested in US Treasuries. They weren't "spent". They collect interest based on the instruments held by the Fund.

If the fund has no assets because the instruments held by the fund are worthless then the Trustee is not obligated to make payments. You can argue that the fund managers were remiss in their investment strategy, but you can't argue that they spent the money.
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2011 06:17 pm



I'm sick and tired of Obama, the republicans and the democrats - DC is out of touch with the country outside the beltway.

Real hope and change emanates from we the people not our elected/hired politicians... DC needs an enema.

It may be time to march on DC with torches and pitchforks....

roger
 
  2  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2011 08:10 pm
@parados,
If that's what they are required to invest in, they can't really be remiss in their investment strategy, either.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  2  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2011 08:10 pm
@H2O MAN,
I think I see a looming EPA issue with your torches.
 

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